Webinar Transcript:

1 

00:00:00.477 --> 00:00:15.767 

Karly O'Brien, RIF: So, welcome! Hi, everyone. Thank you for so much for joining. Good afternoon, good evening, depending on where you're calling in from. We're super excited that you're here for tonight, or today's webinar. In our Every Book Counts series, Every Book is a middle school book. 

2 

00:00:15.767 --> 00:00:21.317 

Karly O'Brien, RIF: And like I mentioned before, I saw lots of familiar names, so to those of you who've joined us before, welcome back. 

3 

00:00:21.317 --> 00:00:38.376 

Karly O'Brien, RIF: And if this is your first webinar with us, welcome, we're super excited to have you. You'll be able to revisit this session and catch up on any previous webinars, in the archives on our website, and I will be sure to drop the link in the chat later on for any important things that we talk about. 

4 

00:00:38.737 --> 00:00:57.727 

Karly O'Brien, RIF: Tonight's session focuses on one of the most powerful instructional strategies that we have, which is the interactive read-aloud. Research shows that read-alouds can significantly support language development, vocabulary growth, engagement, and complex comprehension skills, especially for middle school learners. 

5 

00:00:57.727 --> 00:01:07.177 

Karly O'Brien, RIF: So during this session, we'll explore evidence-based practices that make read-alouds more intentional, inclusive, and impactful across content areas. 

6 

00:01:08.577 --> 00:01:32.637 

Karly O'Brien, RIF: So, if you are new, welcome. A little bit about us, Reading is Fundamental, or RIF. We are the nation's largest children's literacy nonprofit. We are turning 60 next year, so super exciting. And our mission has always been to inspire the joy of reading, and ensure every child has the opportunity and resources to become a lifelong reader. And these webinars are just a part of how we 

7 

00:01:32.637 --> 00:01:37.427 

Karly O'Brien, RIF: Commit to supporting educators and families with practical tools and strategies 

8 

00:01:37.427 --> 00:01:40.197 

Karly O'Brien, RIF: To bring literacy joy to life. 

9 

00:01:41.567 --> 00:01:59.796 

Karly O'Brien, RIF: So we're thrilled to be joined by Dr. Dewan McNair-Lee, Assistant Professor of Urban Education at the University of the District of Columbia, and tonight she will share practical and culturally responsive strategies for using read-alouds to promote engagement and strengthen adolescent literacy skills. 

10 

00:01:59.837 --> 00:02:19.516 

Karly O'Brien, RIF: And Dr. DeJuan McNair-Lee is a native Washingtonian and former DCPS educator who has taught across elementary and middle grades, including ELA, gifted education, and journalism. She's a recipient of the David E. Rubenstein Award for Highly Effective Teaching, and has been featured in Education Week. 

11 

00:02:19.607 --> 00:02:34.856 

Karly O'Brien, RIF: She holds a master's degree in curriculum and instruction with a concentration in reading and literacy from Trinity Washington University, and earned her doctoral degree from the George Washington University, where she focused on Black feminist curriculum theory. 

12 

00:02:34.857 --> 00:02:44.767 

Karly O'Brien, RIF: I'm currently a tenure-track assistant professor at UDC, Dr. McNair Lee's scholarship centers on urban education, identity, and literacy. 

13 

00:02:44.767 --> 00:03:01.097 

Karly O'Brien, RIF: She brings deep passion and first-hand experience and expertise to empowering adolescents as readers, thinkers, and community members. So with that, I'm super excited to welcome our dear friend, Dr. McNair-Lee, turn it over to you! 

14 

00:03:02.147 --> 00:03:08.797 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Thank you so much for that wonderful introduction, Carly. Every time I hear that, I'm like, oh, that's me! 

15 

00:03:08.937 --> 00:03:17.736 

Dowan McNair-Lee: I am, so grateful for this opportunity to share, tonight with, our family, about 

16 

00:03:17.737 --> 00:03:37.406 

Dowan McNair-Lee: two of my favorite things, middle school students and reading. I taught middle school for a very long time in DC Public Schools and Prince George's County Public Schools. And middle school students are probably some of my favorite humans in the world. I just love 

17 

00:03:37.407 --> 00:03:41.476 

Dowan McNair-Lee: How you get to see their growth, their development, 

18 

00:03:41.907 --> 00:04:02.986 

Dowan McNair-Lee: how they change, and how they kind of change day from day, day to day. So they really are some of my favorite humans in the world, and of course, I love reading. Like Carly said, I'm a former ELA classroom teacher. I also did professional development work. I have been a department chair, I've been grade-level chair. 

19 

00:04:02.987 --> 00:04:26.107 

Dowan McNair-Lee: I haven't been a dance teacher. If you name it at the middle school, I've probably done it. When I've attended some of these webinars in the last couple months, one of the things that people do is they seem to tell something about themselves that has nothing to do with their career. So, I'm a bit obsessive about pop culture. If you ask me about 

20 

00:04:26.107 --> 00:04:49.896 

Dowan McNair-Lee: the latest movie or television show or anything like that, I'll probably have an answer for it. But I don't watch any of them. It's very odd, but it's my way of kind of, de-stressing from life. I'm also the proud pet owner of two turtles, and I am in the room with them now, so if you hear any movement, it's really my turtles moving around on the ro… 

21 

00:04:49.897 --> 00:04:56.997 

Dowan McNair-Lee: So, please don't get distracted by that. So we're going to go ahead and get started. Carly, you can go ahead to the next slide. 

22 

00:04:58.087 --> 00:05:09.206 

Dowan McNair-Lee: So, our objectives… I'm a teacher, so I have objectives. So attendees will be able to articulate the need for robust literacy engagement at the middle school level. 

23 

00:05:09.207 --> 00:05:25.976 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Attendees will also be able to understand the perspectives of middle school students as it relates to reading. And then, I want us to make sure that we walk away being able to have some ideas about using picture books as discipline-specific texts. So, Carly, you can go ahead to the next slide. 

24 

00:05:27.497 --> 00:05:50.346 

Dowan McNair-Lee: So everybody has been talking about the middle school literacy crisis, and not just middle school, but in general, the literacy crisis. Every time I open up a social media app or engage in conversation and people find out what I do for a living, the first thing that they say is, these kids can't read. And I would counsel that most adults can't either, but that's another story for another day. 

25 

00:05:51.487 --> 00:06:15.296 

Dowan McNair-Lee: But we do recognize that there is a literacy crisis, and because our focus tonight is middle school students, I chose to take a look at the data from NAEP, for 8th graders. So in 2024, the average reading score for the nation, at 8th grade was 2 points lower than 2022 and 5 points lower compared to 2019. 

26 

00:06:16.187 --> 00:06:40.177 

Dowan McNair-Lee: So, of course, why does this matter? Yes, we know that it's a literacy crisis, but what makes this even more, striking and, I guess, scary is that there was a lot of funding being poured into states for high-impact tutoring and other investments. There was a lot of money pouring into states to hire extra teachers, specifically literacy teachers and math. 

27 

00:06:40.277 --> 00:06:50.886 

Dowan McNair-Lee: to help support students as they move towards meeting proficiency. However, we are not seeing students bouncing back from those pre-pandemic… from those pandemic lows. 

28 

00:06:50.887 --> 00:07:14.267 

Dowan McNair-Lee: And this is concerning, especially for our middle school students. I often say and believe that middle school is where students decide what kind of student they are going to be. So if a student is not doing well in literacy at the middle school level and continues to struggle, then that kind of helps them with their decision-making about what kind of student they will be in high school. 

29 

00:07:14.267 --> 00:07:16.867 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Are they going to be a student that pursues 

30 

00:07:17.217 --> 00:07:35.397 

Dowan McNair-Lee: challenge in high school, or are they going to be a student who holds back and is reticent about pursuing challenge in upper grades? So, literacy, those choices that students make about their identity as a student, I believe, are firmly based in their literacy ability. Carly, you can go to the next slide. 

31 

00:07:38.487 --> 00:07:51.766 

Dowan McNair-Lee: So, the middle school literacy crisis has a number of causes. Researchers point to variables such as the prior focus on balanced literacy in elementary schools, so folks will say, well, they need to bring the phonics back. 

32 

00:07:51.977 --> 00:08:11.716 

Dowan McNair-Lee: And yes, we've brought the phonics back. But people will point to the fact that middle school students now did not receive phonics instruction in elementary school. And RIF has a lot of resources about phonics instruction, science, and reading, so I implore you to check those out. But that's one 

33 

00:08:11.717 --> 00:08:14.296 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Reason that researchers point to. 

34 

00:08:14.297 --> 00:08:20.987 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Another reason that researchers point to is a lack of discipline-specific literacy instruction. 

35 

00:08:21.907 --> 00:08:32.856 

Dowan McNair-Lee: So, what we're seeing happen oftentimes is that literacy instruction at the middle school and high school level becomes the purview of the ELA teacher. You teach reading. 

36 

00:08:32.857 --> 00:08:56.607 

Dowan McNair-Lee: The ELA teacher is the person who teaches reading. I teach social studies, I teach science, I teach this, I don't teach reading. When in fact, at the middle school level, that is where the discipline-specific teachers really should be focusing on how to teach the reading of their content or discipline. Because reading science text is very different from reading a social studies text. 

37 

00:08:56.607 --> 00:09:13.316 

Dowan McNair-Lee: is different from reading a novel, is different from reading fiction, is different from reading an arts-based text, etc. So, it is important that disciplined teachers have knowledge about how to teach reading within their discipline, and that is lacking. 

38 

00:09:13.897 --> 00:09:38.456 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Then, of course, there was the COVID-19 pandemic, and a dearth of the COVID-19 pandemic, which really just kind of interrupted and sabotaged, quite frankly, a lot of students' and teachers' development. So we had that happen, and now we have a dearth of effective and applicable professional development for middle school teachers. As someone who's a middle school teacher as recent as 2022, 

39 

00:09:38.457 --> 00:09:59.077 

Dowan McNair-Lee: a lot of the opportunities for professional development just were not available for me. As someone who'd been in the classroom for many years, there just was not professional development at the district level or the state level that was really pushing me further in my craft as a teacher. And I think a lot of teachers are finding that happening. 

40 

00:09:59.567 --> 00:10:10.427 

Dowan McNair-Lee: So yes, I believe that all of those are true and valid, as I've experienced many of them myself. But I think one of the things that we really, 

41 

00:10:10.427 --> 00:10:29.747 

Dowan McNair-Lee: need to focus on, and that's left out of the conversation, is that middle school students don't have enough time or opportunity to read the books that they choose. There just isn't time in the day, there isn't time in their lives for middle school students to really sit down and read books that they choose and enjoy. 

42 

00:10:29.777 --> 00:10:31.766 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Hardy, you can go to the next slide. 

43 

00:10:34.367 --> 00:10:54.316 

Dowan McNair-Lee: So, I've had the opportunity to have some conversations with middle school students about reading, and some of their comments really surprised me. But let's chat about how middle schoolers want to engage with books. So, based on your experience, what is the most popular genre among middle school students? 

44 

00:10:54.317 --> 00:11:02.277 

Dowan McNair-Lee: What do you think is the most popular genre among middle school students? Please place your response in the chat. 

45 

00:11:02.467 --> 00:11:06.606 

Dowan McNair-Lee: What do you think is the most popular genre among middle school students? 

46 

00:11:29.237 --> 00:11:34.137 

Dowan McNair-Lee: So, it looks like, based on what I'm seeing, 

47 

00:11:36.457 --> 00:11:56.686 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Yes, Carly, I see the trend as well. I agree that a graphic novel may not be a genre, but there is a difference between a graphic novel and other kinds of straight novels. So, when I was talking to middle school students, I chose to posit it in this way. 

48 

00:11:56.917 --> 00:12:09.847 

Dowan McNair-Lee: However, when I was having these conversations with students, what continued to rise up was that anime was actually the most popular, and graphic novels came second to anime. 

49 

00:12:11.097 --> 00:12:24.477 

Dowan McNair-Lee: And I found that to be very interesting, that one, that there was a differentiation with the students, between anime and graphic novels. There was really a clear distinction with them between those two. 

50 

00:12:24.477 --> 00:12:32.016 

Dowan McNair-Lee: And I was interested that anime kept rising to the top in these chats I was having with kids. Carly, you can go to the next slide. 

51 

00:12:35.767 --> 00:12:49.807 

Dowan McNair-Lee: So, in my informal conversations, anime and manga emerged as the most popular genre of books for middle school age readers. What I would like you all to do is Carly is gonna drop a link in the chat. 

52 

00:12:49.807 --> 00:13:04.627 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Or, if you are able to, you can use your phone to access the Padlet, to capture your ideas about why middle school age students are drawn to these types of texts. Why do you think students are drawn to anime and manga? 

53 

00:13:08.547 --> 00:13:13.147 

Dowan McNair-Lee: And if the Padlet does not work for you, feel free to put your response in the chat. 

54 

00:13:15.737 --> 00:13:20.596 

Karly O'Brien, RIF: I'm gonna stop sharing for one quick second so I can grab the link, folks. I promise I will come back. 

55 

00:13:21.627 --> 00:13:23.187 

Karly O'Brien, RIF: The screen will come back. 

56 

00:13:27.337 --> 00:13:29.877 

Karly O'Brien, RIF: Alright, there's the link, sorry about that. 

57 

00:13:32.717 --> 00:13:34.247 

Karly O'Brien, RIF: There we go… 

58 

00:13:35.307 --> 00:13:39.166 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Allison, that is a good question. 

59 

00:13:39.657 --> 00:13:45.897 

Dowan McNair-Lee: So, like I said, in these informal chats, the students ranged between, 

60 

00:13:46.167 --> 00:13:52.047 

Dowan McNair-Lee: 7th and 8th grade. It was a pretty much even split between boys and girls. 

61 

00:13:56.187 --> 00:13:58.107 

Dowan McNair-Lee: I would almost say 50-50. 

62 

00:14:12.037 --> 00:14:16.286 

Dowan McNair-Lee: And that is a good question to ask while responding to this. 

63 

00:14:55.227 --> 00:15:03.527 

Dowan McNair-Lee: I love these responses from the Padlet, and I have to take my glasses off, because I'm at that point now where I can't see. 

64 

00:15:07.317 --> 00:15:15.557 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Yes, television definitely has a lot to do with this. Colorful and fun, short bursts, not too long. 

65 

00:15:17.137 --> 00:15:21.636 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Yes, being able to relate to these as an artist, absolutely. 

66 

00:15:22.157 --> 00:15:27.027 

Dowan McNair-Lee: The social aspect, they're talking about these, they can discuss them together. 

67 

00:15:29.097 --> 00:15:31.347 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Racy, yes. 

68 

00:15:38.037 --> 00:16:03.017 

Dowan McNair-Lee: there is sometimes there's an edge to anime and manga that they won't find necessarily in some YA, although there is YA that toes the line. But there is an edge to anime and manga that exists, and that students like to be able… middle school students like to push boundaries, and anime does provide them the opportunity to do so in ways that still feel safe. But I agree that this is definitely a sole 

69 

00:16:03.017 --> 00:16:19.467 

Dowan McNair-Lee: social space. This is also a space where they can engage as artists, and not just as readers, but they can actually take a look at the pictures and engage with this… and engage with the text from an artistic standpoint as well. Thank you all so much for engaging with this, Padlet. 

70 

00:16:20.707 --> 00:16:22.676 

Dowan McNair-Lee: We can go to the next slide. 

71 

00:16:23.607 --> 00:16:33.436 

Dowan McNair-Lee: So, when we talk about manga, anime, these texts, and you all brought up a lot of these points, but… 

72 

00:16:36.747 --> 00:16:57.266 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Thank you. They fall under… perfect. Thank you, Harley. They fall under the idea of multi-literacies. So, we are not just reading the words, but we're also reading the pictures. So the text here is nonlinear, and when we think about our middle school students, they are being bombarded in a lot of ways with text. 

73 

00:16:57.267 --> 00:17:00.976 

Dowan McNair-Lee: From different standpoints, and from different mediums. 

74 

00:17:00.977 --> 00:17:24.707 

Dowan McNair-Lee: One of the mediums that we see students being… engaging with text is TikTok. And in TikTok, they're not only seeing people doing the dances, but they're seeing the words, they're seeing all kinds of graphics popping up, so they're engaging with the text in that way. They're also engaging with streamers, video games, and other mediums that allow them to engage with text in a non-linear fashion. 

75 

00:17:24.707 --> 00:17:33.687 

Dowan McNair-Lee: So, when we talk about anime, it is a way that they're engaging with text in their own lives, but it's now with a book. 

76 

00:17:34.027 --> 00:17:58.947 

Dowan McNair-Lee: With anime as well, it's graphics that engage readers and provide visual cues. So students are not just left with the words to be able to read, but they also have the graphics to be able to give them clues about what's coming up. This allows middle school students who may not be proficient readers to still engage strongly with text, and not have to rely only on the words to provide them with meaning, but they also 

77 

00:17:58.947 --> 00:18:08.696 

Dowan McNair-Lee: also have the pictures to assist them as well. And the pictures tell the story as well. They're not just aids, but they actually are telling the story of the text as well. 

78 

00:18:08.697 --> 00:18:11.417 

Dowan McNair-Lee: So, when we think about. 

79 

00:18:11.537 --> 00:18:31.226 

Dowan McNair-Lee: we think about these texts, these texts are actually supporting students, providing them with social interaction, they're providing them with means to embrace their artistic motivations, but they're also providing them with ways, if they are not the strongest readers, to engage with text in ways that support them as readers. 

80 

00:18:31.817 --> 00:18:43.337 

Dowan McNair-Lee: I found this book, Rebel Seal. It was described as Pacific Rim meets sci-fi, and it is a book, it is an award-winning science fiction, 

81 

00:18:43.647 --> 00:19:08.407 

Dowan McNair-Lee: text, and it is for 6th through 12th graders. And when I was looking through it, it looked incredibly cool, and it looked like a text that students, middle school age students would love. It actually is a series, and it's a book series that I think that middle school age… the first book came out in 2018, which is pictured here. So, I just put it because I thought that it was a great text that students would be able to enjoy. You might want to be able to pick that up 

82 

00:19:08.407 --> 00:19:13.996 

Dowan McNair-Lee: your classrooms, or just have it for your personal libraries. So we can go to the next slide. 

83 

00:19:17.127 --> 00:19:27.917 

Dowan McNair-Lee: So, when we talk about middle school age readers, and I said before that a lot of times middle school students don't have the opportunity to find the right book. And… 

84 

00:19:28.387 --> 00:19:30.286 

Dowan McNair-Lee: They want to read. 

85 

00:19:30.287 --> 00:19:52.837 

Dowan McNair-Lee: That was one of the best things that I found out in these conversations I had with kids. They want to read. They often don't have time or don't know how to pick a book that works for them. This is where we come in as teachers and school staff. And I want to take a pause because I understand where many of us are right now as far as teachers. I understand that 

86 

00:19:52.837 --> 00:19:56.047 

Dowan McNair-Lee: The, pressures are, 

87 

00:19:56.247 --> 00:20:05.416 

Dowan McNair-Lee: feel very challenging right now. And I know when I left the classroom in 2022, it was difficult then. 

88 

00:20:05.417 --> 00:20:30.406 

Dowan McNair-Lee: So I can only imagine what is… what teachers are dealing with in classrooms now. So, I wanted to acknowledge that before I went any further, because I know that you all are doing your very, very best. And I don't want teachers to ever feel like, you know, as a PD or whatever, that I'm saying, you gotta do this! But these are things that I did in my classroom, and that I've seen happen in other classes. 

89 

00:20:30.407 --> 00:20:39.837 

Dowan McNair-Lee: classrooms that work, and that teachers and other school staff say that aren't heavy lifts for them. So these are three things that I wanted to suggest. 

90 

00:20:40.197 --> 00:21:05.106 

Dowan McNair-Lee: So, one of them that I did in my classrooms that I found to be extremely effective was book commercials. And book commercials were just, like, 5-minute snippets that I put together of books that I thought that my students would want to read. I can think of just Jason Reynolds off the top of my head. Jason Reynolds is all over media. He has a lot of, interviews and things 

91 

00:21:05.107 --> 00:21:29.697 

Dowan McNair-Lee: like that. So, when I was introducing a book that my students might want to read, I believe it was Ghost, I did a book commercial for the book, and they watched a snippet of a Jason Reynolds interview, and they read a couple of paragraphs of Ghost, and I talked it up. It was about 5 minutes total. But it was a way for us to engage with books, and for me to introduce a book that my students might not. 

92 

00:21:29.697 --> 00:21:44.377 

Dowan McNair-Lee: have read, but I thought that they might be interested in. Having them actually listen to Jason Reynolds, hear his story, hear his background, really helped them to be able to say, oh wow, this might be something I might be able to read and enjoy as well. 

93 

00:21:44.977 --> 00:21:57.316 

Dowan McNair-Lee: The next one is book contests, and I'm going to talk specifically about a book contest that I know about, because it happened at the former… at the middle school I used to teach at, where my daughter ascended last year. 

94 

00:21:57.567 --> 00:22:10.107 

Dowan McNair-Lee: So, this book contest was called the 40 Book Book… the 40 Book Challenge. I'm sorry. It's the 40 Book Challenge. And in the 40 Book Challenge, the school librarian managed the 40 Book Challenge. 

95 

00:22:10.337 --> 00:22:15.367 

Dowan McNair-Lee: And she created a list where students would, 

96 

00:22:16.937 --> 00:22:31.206 

Dowan McNair-Lee: were pursuing the goal of reading 40 books per year. She actually had a breakdown of the different types of books that students would be able to read for this challenge, and as they've read each book. 

97 

00:22:32.047 --> 00:22:49.216 

Dowan McNair-Lee: They would have to go and talk to an adult to have a book talk. Now, the adult that they spoke with did not have to be a teacher. It could be any school staff in the building. So you could talk to the librarian, you could talk to the teacher, you could talk to… 

98 

00:22:49.287 --> 00:22:58.026 

Dowan McNair-Lee: The front office staff, but somebody has to sign off that you had this conversation with them about this book, and it was a guided conversation. 

99 

00:22:58.137 --> 00:23:06.097 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Once you had that guided conversation with an adult about the book, you took that sheet, they signed off on it, you signed off on it. 

100 

00:23:06.097 --> 00:23:20.537 

Dowan McNair-Lee: You would take that sheet to the school librarian, and the school librarian would note that you've read this book. And she had displays in the hallway of students who were participating in the 40 Book Challenge. For each book, a student got a star. 

101 

00:23:21.207 --> 00:23:37.346 

Dowan McNair-Lee: And as they progressed, they would receive… they would move up, and they would move from, bronze to, silver to gold, and I believe they had platinum, or something like that was the highest. And the librarian would print out, 

102 

00:23:37.347 --> 00:23:52.197 

Dowan McNair-Lee: pictures of the covers of each book that the student would read, and put them over top of the student's name in the hallway. So you walk down the hallway, you see these students' names, and all of these pictures of books that they read going up the wall in the hallway. Beautiful display. 

103 

00:23:52.217 --> 00:23:58.446 

Dowan McNair-Lee: And at the end of the 40 Book Challenge, students who met the 40 Book Challenge. 

104 

00:23:58.447 --> 00:24:02.377 

Dowan McNair-Lee: I were awarded a trip to, 

105 

00:24:02.377 --> 00:24:19.236 

Dowan McNair-Lee: ice cream parlor, and also they received a grant to go shopping at an independent bookstore. And I know, again, that's something that every school might not be able to do, but it was a lovely way to award students who read books. There was no… 

106 

00:24:19.317 --> 00:24:24.237 

Dowan McNair-Lee: they could select any titles they wanted, 

107 

00:24:24.237 --> 00:24:41.357 

Dowan McNair-Lee: there was no approval process for titles, and if a book was over 350 pages, the count… I'm sorry, if it was over 250 pages, it counted as 2 books. So my… excuse me, my daughter used to work the system and read books that were over 250 pages. 

108 

00:24:41.357 --> 00:24:57.576 

Dowan McNair-Lee: So they would count as two books. So, that was another way. Have these book contests, have ways of students being able to engage with the books that they are reading, and talking about them with folks in the building. Not just their English teachers, but with other teachers as well. 

109 

00:24:57.987 --> 00:25:07.267 

Dowan McNair-Lee: And then lastly, let students see you reading. When you have the opportunity to just sit, which I know does not come a lot in the classroom. 

110 

00:25:07.267 --> 00:25:30.547 

Dowan McNair-Lee: But if you have the opportunity to sit, let students see you reading a book that you love. If you have an opportunity to during your lunch time, if students can see you, let them see you carrying a book that you care about, that you want to read. And I think that these things help students to be able to find the right book, because then they can ask you questions about the book that you are reading. It may not be a book that middle school students should be reading. 

111 

00:25:30.547 --> 00:25:35.386 

Dowan McNair-Lee: But it may be an opening for you to guide students to a book that they may enjoy. 

112 

00:25:36.047 --> 00:25:37.916 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Kylie, you can go to the next slide. 

113 

00:25:41.317 --> 00:26:06.247 

Dowan McNair-Lee: So, some of the middle school readers I talked to stated that they do not need to read books about kids that look and sound like them, but they want to read about experiences and adventures that relate to their own emotional journeys. I found this to be a bit surprising, especially because of my work in identity, culturally relevant pedagogy, and we have these conversations about students wanting to read books about people that look like them. 

114 

00:26:06.247 --> 00:26:22.187 

Dowan McNair-Lee: and having, and not discounting that at all. I believe that is important. I believe it is vital that students have books that look and sound like them. But for middle school students, it seems like they prioritize the experiences and adventures over the 

115 

00:26:22.727 --> 00:26:37.697 

Dowan McNair-Lee: identity matching, one-to-one identity matching. So when we think about this, I went back to the idea of mirrors, windows, and sliding glass doors by Rudine Sims Bishop. And when she talks about mirrors, that is the text that reflects who you are. 

116 

00:26:37.987 --> 00:27:01.616 

Dowan McNair-Lee: the, window, you being able to see into another experience, and then the sliding glass door, you walking into this different world. And I would imagine that for middle school students, sometimes it's a mix of all three of them for them, that they want to be able to see themselves reflected, but it may not be their physical appearance that they want to see reflected, but more about their experiences, finding commonality in the text that they are reading. 

117 

00:27:01.907 --> 00:27:10.907 

Dowan McNair-Lee: And then, there was a recent, webinar and blog post on RIFT that talked about text relevance, and Carly, you can go to the next slide. 

118 

00:27:12.887 --> 00:27:33.697 

Dowan McNair-Lee: And text relevance has four dimensions. So when we think about text relevance for our students, these dimensions can help us as educators support the reading and meaning-making for our students. And this honors their complexity, because middle school students are not one-size-fits-all. And just because there may be racial, ethnic, gender. 

119 

00:27:33.817 --> 00:27:50.526 

Dowan McNair-Lee: sameness, that it does not mean that they are not still different in complex ways. So students want to be able to relate as far as their identity, their spatiality, that is, like, where they are, physically in space, their temporality, so… 

120 

00:27:50.727 --> 00:28:00.817 

Dowan McNair-Lee: They want it to be related to their time. And then ideology. Who am I as a person? What do I believe and think? What are my ethics? What do I hold on to? 

121 

00:28:00.817 --> 00:28:21.467 

Dowan McNair-Lee: What are my family's ethics? Do my ethics match who I come from? So these things help students to be able to identify texts that they care about when we, as teachers, can have these conversations about the text. Do these texts match the identities of my students? Do they match who they are and where they are in time? 

122 

00:28:21.467 --> 00:28:25.766 

Dowan McNair-Lee: And do they match who they are as far as what they think and feel and believe? 

123 

00:28:26.287 --> 00:28:28.496 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Carly, we can go to the next slide. 

124 

00:28:31.717 --> 00:28:47.267 

Dowan McNair-Lee: So, going back to an earlier point that I made about discipline-specific literacy, we have to make sure that we are aligning ourselves in the disciplines, and we're not just putting the onus on teaching reading. 

125 

00:28:47.267 --> 00:29:12.167 

Dowan McNair-Lee: to the ELA teacher. While the ELA teacher is the one who teaches students how to read, or is responsible for teaching English language arts, they are not all the time the ones responsible for teaching how to read in the science classroom, or how to read in a social studies classroom, or how to read in the math classroom. And I think it is important for content or discipline area teachers to be able to take some of that 

126 

00:29:12.167 --> 00:29:18.236 

Dowan McNair-Lee: onus on, and work with students to be able to develop their reading skills in the disciplines. 

127 

00:29:18.457 --> 00:29:25.097 

Dowan McNair-Lee: So, one of the ways that I believe we can help do this is by picture books, and utilizing picture books. 

128 

00:29:25.247 --> 00:29:33.996 

Dowan McNair-Lee: So, how can we leverage the right picture book to support literacy in the middle school disciplines? We're gonna talk about that. So, Carly, go to the next slide. 

129 

00:29:35.827 --> 00:29:42.517 

Dowan McNair-Lee: So, Sweet Music in Harlem is a Lee and Lowe book, and it is written by… 

130 

00:29:42.517 --> 00:30:07.287 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Debbie Taylor, an illustrated by one of my favorite children's book illustrators, Frank Morrison. And I selected this book because Sweet Music in Harlem is set during the Harlem Renaissance, and I would imagine that in a social studies classroom, this is a text that you would be able to use in your classroom to extend learning about the Harlem Renaissance, that time period, and the people and places that informed the work 

131 

00:30:07.287 --> 00:30:08.856 

Dowan McNair-Lee: of the Harlem Renaissance. 

132 

00:30:09.577 --> 00:30:12.716 

Dowan McNair-Lee: So, how can we do this as a 

133 

00:30:15.637 --> 00:30:20.446 

Dowan McNair-Lee: And I will be reading this with permission from Lee and Lowe. 

134 

00:30:21.307 --> 00:30:27.866 

Dowan McNair-Lee: So how can we do this as middle school teachers? Well, one idea that I had is that 

135 

00:30:27.887 --> 00:30:43.546 

Dowan McNair-Lee: If you read a picture book with your students, you can use it as a model or an exemplar to be able to have students create their own picture books about historical texts, or historical events. So, let's say we're reading about… 

136 

00:30:43.807 --> 00:30:47.027 

Dowan McNair-Lee: And I keep thinking about, like, random… 

137 

00:30:47.357 --> 00:31:10.467 

Dowan McNair-Lee: not great stuff. So, thinking about perhaps the, first moon landing, and we're reading about that from a historical lens, but how could we have students reformat those conversations into a picture book for younger readers? So, I'm going to read Sweet Music in Harlem, and then we can talk about some ways that this would be able to be reformatted 

138 

00:31:10.467 --> 00:31:16.907 

Dowan McNair-Lee: for younger… for… That an idea would be able to be reformatted for younger readers. 

139 

00:31:18.047 --> 00:31:23.657 

Dowan McNair-Lee: So, let's begin. Sweet Music in Harlem by Debbie A. Taylor. 

140 

00:31:37.627 --> 00:31:39.397 

Dowan McNair-Lee: And again, I have to take my glasses off. 

141 

00:31:41.237 --> 00:32:04.417 

Dowan McNair-Lee: CJ, where can my hat be called Uncle Click from the bathroom? That photographer from High Note magazine will be out front in an hour, and I've got to look good. It's not every day a Harlem trumpet player gets his picture taken. CJ looked at the old poster on the wall. A young Uncle Click with a snappy black beret blew a gleaming trumpet. 

142 

00:32:04.417 --> 00:32:13.206 

Dowan McNair-Lee: CJ looked at that poster every morning and dreamed of standing on stage, blowing his own sweet music for a room full of admiring folks. 

143 

00:32:13.287 --> 00:32:23.726 

Dowan McNair-Lee: During the four years he had lived with Uncle Click, CJ had learned to hold his clarinet just right, to practice every day, and to keep a penny in his shoe for good luck. 

144 

00:32:23.727 --> 00:32:39.277 

Dowan McNair-Lee: When he blew out the candles on his birthday cake next week, he'd wish that one day, his own picture would be on a poster, too. But for now, CJ just tries to make his notes ring out clear and strong from his densit secondhand clarinet. 

145 

00:32:41.657 --> 00:32:51.947 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Uncle Click chuckled as he walked into the room. Those were the days, he said, nodding at the poster. Back then, I played the meanest trumpet in Harlem. Now all I do is lose things. 

146 

00:32:51.957 --> 00:33:06.357 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Don't worry, Uncle Click, I'll find your hat, CJ said. Where could you have left it? Well, said Uncle Click as he looked behind the couch. Last night, I stopped at the barbershop and the diner. Later on, I jammed at the Midnight Melody Club. 

147 

00:33:06.357 --> 00:33:19.997 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Uncle Click's voice trailed off as he searched under the cushion of his favorite chair. When music was on Uncle Click's mind, he forgot everything else. He could have left his hat anywhere, and there wasn't much time to find it. 

148 

00:33:21.157 --> 00:33:27.587 

Karly O'Brien, RIF: Hey, DeJuan, so sorry to interrupt you. Before you keep going, is there any way you can turn the blur off so we could see the photos a little bit better? 

149 

00:33:27.587 --> 00:33:29.226 

Dowan McNair-Lee: I am so sorry. 

150 

00:33:29.227 --> 00:33:34.227 

Karly O'Brien, RIF: Oh, good! No, no worries. It's probably hard for you to see that, it's hard for us to see, so… 

151 

00:33:34.447 --> 00:33:35.057 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Okay. 

152 

00:33:35.236 --> 00:33:38.936 

Karly O'Brien, RIF: There we go. Oh, amazing. Thank you, because I love this story, so thank you. 

153 

00:33:38.937 --> 00:33:42.536 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Okay, I'm sorry, because I'm, like, holding up the pictures and everything. I'm sorry, y'all. 

154 

00:33:44.236 --> 00:34:00.286 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Okay, so CJ ran down the street. The striped pole outside Garlic's Barbershop glistened like a candy cane. Inside, the place buzzed as everyone talked at once. At Garlic's neighborhood… at Garlic's, neighborhood news traveled faster than the subway train speeding downtown. 

155 

00:34:00.286 --> 00:34:21.926 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Do you see that Kansas City drummer cut loose at the midnight melody last night? One of the men shouted, yeah, he was cool, but it sure was hot in there, someone else replied. Mr. Garlic talked louder than anyone. A toothpick jutting from the corner of his mouth bounced up and down as he scolded a fidgety customer. Mr. Garlic, CJ called, but no one heard him. 

156 

00:34:22.796 --> 00:34:24.756 

Dowan McNair-Lee: This is inside the barbershop. 

157 

00:34:27.726 --> 00:34:39.696 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Mr. Garlic, CJ said again louder. The barber finally spotted CJ and smiled. Look at him! It's my favorite young jazz man. Mark my words, he'll be a headliner soon. What can I do for you, CJ? 

158 

00:34:39.696 --> 00:34:48.886 

Dowan McNair-Lee: A photographer from High Note magazine is coming soon, CJ blurted out. And Uncle Click lost his hat. Did he leave it here? Your uncle didn't leave his hat, but he did leave this. 

159 

00:34:48.936 --> 00:34:57.276 

Dowan McNair-Lee: said Mr. Garlic, holding up a shiny watch. When Click blows his horn, that barber pole sings, but he is a little forgetful. 

160 

00:34:57.276 --> 00:35:00.736 

Dowan McNair-Lee: CJ thanked Mr. Garlic and slipped the watch into his pocket. 

161 

00:35:00.736 --> 00:35:17.436 

Dowan McNair-Lee: You say some photographer is coming from high note? Mr. Garlic asked. Well, a photo without big Charlie Garlic wouldn't be much of a picture, right, folks? As CJ hurried away, he could hear the people in the barbershop buzzing about the photographer. I've got to find that hat, CJ muttered to himself. 

162 

00:35:18.446 --> 00:35:31.216 

Dowan McNair-Lee: CJ rushed around the corner and into the jam-packed eat-and-run diner. Just inside the door, he jumped back as a waitress zipped past, balancing plates of ham and eggs on one arm and home fries and sausage on the other. 

163 

00:35:31.876 --> 00:35:34.406 

Dowan McNair-Lee: It's a beautiful picture of the diner. 

164 

00:35:37.826 --> 00:35:54.596 

Dowan McNair-Lee: The waitress grinned at CJ, her apron still swaying from her dash around the room. Hey, CJ, she said. Hey, Maddie B, said CJ. Did Uncle Click leave his hat here? A photographer from High Note magazine is coming to take his picture in a few minutes, and Uncle Click needs his hat. 

165 

00:35:54.706 --> 00:36:15.506 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Honey, Click didn't leave his hat, but he did leave this, said Maddie D. She pulled a handkerchief from her pocket and dropped it into CJ's hand. Your uncle leaves things all over Harlem, but when he wails on that trumpet, the salt shakers bounce. And if you keep practicing, one day you'll make them bounce, too. Thanks for the hanky, Maddie D, CJ said. 

166 

00:36:15.506 --> 00:36:18.796 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Did you say a photographer from High Note is coming? 

167 

00:36:18.796 --> 00:36:25.246 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Maddie D asks, I love to be in a picture, especially if I could stand next to your handsome uncle. 

168 

00:36:25.466 --> 00:36:33.446 

Dowan McNair-Lee: As CJ left the diner, he could hear Maddie B. telling her customers about the photographer. But I still gotta find Uncle Click's hat, CJ moan. 

169 

00:36:35.306 --> 00:36:47.166 

Dowan McNair-Lee: CJ raced down the block, then bounced down the stairs of the Midnight Melody Club. Even though the club was closed, 8 musicians were crowded onto the small stage, playing as if it were still showtime. 

170 

00:36:47.166 --> 00:37:02.516 

Dowan McNair-Lee: The bass player's eyes glistened as he plucked his instruments. The vibraphone player tapped the keys with his eyes closed. CJ, the drummer shouted out without losing a beat. We're saving a spot for you here. I reckon you'll be joining us in a few years. 

171 

00:37:09.196 --> 00:37:28.866 

Dowan McNair-Lee: A woman strolled towards CJ from the back of the club. She didn't seem to notice that it wasn't nighttime. She still wore a fancy dress, and rings glistened on her fingers. Miss Alma, CJ called! A photographer from High Note magazine is coming to take Uncle Click's picture, and he can't find his hat. Did he leave it on stage last night? 

172 

00:37:29.116 --> 00:37:43.046 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Canary Alma shook her head. Your uncle didn't leave his hat here, but he did leave this, she said, and plucked a bow tie from the piano bench. He's forgetful, but when Click plays and blows his trumpet, the wallpaper curls. 

173 

00:37:43.336 --> 00:37:55.746 

Dowan McNair-Lee: CJ thanked Canary Alma and slid the tie over his wrist. A photographer from high note, Canary Alma exclaimed, smoothing her dress, my face next to your uncle's would give that photo a touch of class. 

174 

00:37:55.896 --> 00:38:04.576 

Dowan McNair-Lee: CJ's shoulders dropped as he left the Midnight Melody Club. He didn't want to disappoint Uncle Click, but he could not find that hat anywhere. 

175 

00:38:06.006 --> 00:38:20.956 

Dowan McNair-Lee: CJ dragged his feet up the steps of the brownstone where his uncle waited, a lump like a sour ball wedged in CJ's throat. Uncle Click, CJ said, I can't find your hat, but I did find these. He held out the watch, the handkerchief, and the bow tie. 

176 

00:38:20.996 --> 00:38:28.396 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Uncle Click looked at CJ and a huge smile spread across his face. Looked like you found something else, too, pointed behind CJ. 

177 

00:38:33.406 --> 00:38:36.066 

Dowan McNair-Lee: CJ turned around. Big Charlie? 

178 

00:38:36.066 --> 00:39:01.046 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Garlic, Maddie D, and Canary Alma were all walking down the street towards them, but they weren't alone. They were followed by men from the barbershop, people from the diner, and musicians from the Midnight Melody Club. There were also folks CJ had never seen before, and people he'd only seen on posters or record covers. Hey, Click, said Charlie Garlic, you sure know how to gather a crowd. Wasn't me? said Uncle Click, winking at CJ. 

179 

00:39:01.046 --> 00:39:11.246 

Dowan McNair-Lee: CJ could hardly believe his eyes. Here were some of the greatest musicians and singers in Harlem. It was like seeing the sun, the moon, and the stars all shining at once. 

180 

00:39:18.236 --> 00:39:38.386 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Your nephew drew a crowd without even blowing a note, said Charlie Garlic. He won't have any trouble packing them in the Apollo in a few years. I've never seen so many jazzy folks in one place and right in front of my own home, said Uncle Click, a twinkle in his eyes. This really is something special. Who needs a hat to appreciate that? 

181 

00:39:44.736 --> 00:39:47.326 

Dowan McNair-Lee: The photographers here, someone yelled. 

182 

00:39:47.336 --> 00:40:00.736 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Everyone scrambled to get a good spot on the steps. There were so many people, some ended up sitting on the curb and standing on the sidewalk. The photographer laughed from behind the camera. Guess I'd better use a wider lens. 

183 

00:40:00.736 --> 00:40:14.566 

Dowan McNair-Lee: As the photographer adjusted the camera, the crowd settled into position for the picture. Smile, the photographer finally shouted, and pop! A bright light flash. Laughter and clapping filled the air. 

184 

00:40:20.486 --> 00:40:25.416 

Dowan McNair-Lee: That night, as CJ lay in bed, light from the hallway crept into his room. 

185 

00:40:25.416 --> 00:40:50.036 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Uncle Click stood in the doorway with a large box wrapped in bright red paper. I know your birthday's not till next week, said Uncle Click, but I wanted to give you this before all the magic of today wears off. CJ opened the box and lifted out a black case. His eyes widened as he raised the lid. Inside, nestled in the velvet, was a brand new clarinet. It's perfect, CJ said, cradling the horn gently in his hands. 

186 

00:40:50.196 --> 00:41:02.546 

Dowan McNair-Lee: CJ hugged his uncle tightly. Then he noticed something else in the box. Uncle Click! Your hat! Well, look at that, said Uncle Click. It must have fallen in there last night when I was wrapping your present. 

187 

00:41:07.956 --> 00:41:24.146 

Dowan McNair-Lee: You know, a jazz man like you is gonna need a good hat, said Uncle Click, as he placed the beret neatly on CJ's head. Besides, I'm getting used to not wearing one. CJ adjusted the hat and put the clarinet to his lips. He started to blow while his fingers danced over the keys. 

188 

00:41:24.146 --> 00:41:33.746 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Uncle Click beamed and nodded to the beat as CJ's own sweet music rang out clear and strong for the most admiring audience in all of Harlem. 

189 

00:41:39.086 --> 00:41:43.206 

Dowan McNair-Lee: So this book is actually based on a real picture 

190 

00:41:43.466 --> 00:41:58.926 

Dowan McNair-Lee: that was taken on the Harlem Brownstone, the steps of a Harlem Brownstone, during the Harlem Renaissance. And many of the people pictured in this picture are actually famous jazz musicians and artists. They're folks like, 

191 

00:41:59.256 --> 00:42:01.546 

Dowan McNair-Lee: I used to have these highlighted. 

192 

00:42:03.806 --> 00:42:20.376 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Dizzy Gillespie, Count Basie, Lester Young, and others are pictured here. So, what I imagine from a middle school perspective is that you could give students a document or a photo like this, and have them imagine 

193 

00:42:20.766 --> 00:42:35.246 

Dowan McNair-Lee: a text, and create a picture book for younger readers based on a document or a photo. Having them do that will reinforce their comprehension of the content, but also have them engage creatively with the content as well. 

194 

00:42:35.246 --> 00:42:50.506 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Because one of the things that I learned as an undergraduate and continue to say, if you can teach it, you know it. So, that's one way that I believe we can use picture books effectively in the middle school classroom, is by engaging them with the discipline-specific topic. 

195 

00:42:50.506 --> 00:43:01.926 

Dowan McNair-Lee: And having students write their own picture book. And Sweet Music in Harlem is a great book to be able to use as an exemplar for an assignment like that. Carly, we can go back to the PowerPoint. 

196 

00:43:05.886 --> 00:43:06.796 

Dowan McNair-Lee: So… 

197 

00:43:08.006 --> 00:43:20.116 

Dowan McNair-Lee: We are at 7.45, and I did good with timing because I was scared. So are there any questions, and we could talk about this or middle school literacy in general, any questions? 

198 

00:43:21.826 --> 00:43:30.026 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Oh, and if you want to contact me, you can certainly shoot me an email at dewan.mcnearlylee, no hyphen, at udc.edu. 

199 

00:43:30.676 --> 00:43:32.456 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Soda, any questions? 

200 

00:43:42.087 --> 00:43:46.206 

Karly O'Brien, RIF: I know we had, like, a couple throughout that you were able to address, too, so maybe… 

201 

00:43:47.217 --> 00:43:54.407 

Karly O'Brien, RIF: maybe folks are quiet tonight, but… hope you all enjoyed. Dewan, Aaron and I were texting on the side, just… 

202 

00:43:54.407 --> 00:43:59.497 

Karly O'Brien, RIF: So excited and enjoying so much of this, because this is exactly… 

203 

00:43:59.497 --> 00:44:14.526 

Karly O'Brien, RIF: I think what our people are looking for, we want to support our middle school friends, and as a former 5th grade educator, they're, like, right on the borderline. In the school that I taught at, they were technically middle schoolers, because it started at 5th grade, so… 

204 

00:44:14.657 --> 00:44:22.647 

Karly O'Brien, RIF: this age group holds a special place in my heart, so I love that we took the time to focus and love on them a little bit. 

205 

00:44:22.847 --> 00:44:34.906 

Karly O'Brien, RIF: But we did get one question right here, so it says, can you share about if or how students may retell difficult histories through picture books? That's a really good question. 

206 

00:44:35.037 --> 00:44:38.956 

Dowan McNair-Lee: That's a good question. Thank you so much, Erin, for addressing that. 

207 

00:44:39.637 --> 00:44:42.686 

Dowan McNair-Lee: So, yes, I think that, 

208 

00:44:43.447 --> 00:44:53.117 

Dowan McNair-Lee: it is necessary for students to engage with difficult histories, and I think that a way of doing so is through picture books. 

209 

00:44:53.477 --> 00:44:59.317 

Dowan McNair-Lee: one of the graphic novels that we see a lot, especially now thinking about the Holocaust, and I'm sorry. 

210 

00:45:00.407 --> 00:45:08.457 

Dowan McNair-Lee: there's a stuffy on my desk, and I think one of the little furs got on my lip, when I was reading. But anyway, 

211 

00:45:09.547 --> 00:45:14.156 

Dowan McNair-Lee: one of the graphic novels when we used to teach the Holocaust Unit was Mouse. 

212 

00:45:14.417 --> 00:45:29.297 

Dowan McNair-Lee: And that's one example of a difficult history through a graphic novel. We see this utilized a lot at the middle school level, that, graphic novels often become a medium where we do teach, 

213 

00:45:29.337 --> 00:45:38.027 

Dowan McNair-Lee: difficult histories. So, while not specifically a difficult history, but one that can be challenging, when I was teaching 7th grade. 

214 

00:45:38.977 --> 00:45:55.196 

Dowan McNair-Lee: We, oh, I will get to that one in a minute, Nicole. Thank you for asking that. When I was teaching 7th grade, one of my constant… one of my units was, the rise and fall of… 

215 

00:45:56.077 --> 00:46:04.467 

Dowan McNair-Lee: the kingdoms of Mali, Songhai, and Ghana, so, like, the ancient kingdoms, the ancient African kingdoms of Mali, Songhai, and Ghana. 

216 

00:46:04.987 --> 00:46:21.627 

Dowan McNair-Lee: And we had to talk about how the… the kingdoms were established, but then also how… what caused them to fail, ultimately. And while they were reading, like, my students had to read, like, a lot of dents for 7th graders, I thought, like, a lot of really dense texts. 

217 

00:46:21.837 --> 00:46:32.356 

Dowan McNair-Lee: that talked about, this king, and this king, and this king, and this king, and then this king, and then this king, and then this ward, and it was, like, really dense. So, like, there has to be a way of… 

218 

00:46:33.177 --> 00:46:45.917 

Dowan McNair-Lee: not doing this to them. And I found… so one of the kings during that time was Sundiata, and I found a graphic novel that discussed the legend of Sundiata. 

219 

00:46:45.977 --> 00:47:05.216 

Dowan McNair-Lee: And I did not read it in class, but I told my students that it was on my desk. And once I told them it was on my desk, it became the hottest thing in the classroom. Like, it never came back to my desk again. I would see it in one person's hand one day, then the next day I was seeing it in somebody else's hand, and it just, like, was running through the classroom. 

220 

00:47:05.307 --> 00:47:19.297 

Dowan McNair-Lee: And it became something that became a teaching tool. So, when I was talking to my teaching team, we decided that we were going to have graphic novels for everything. So when we taught the Revolutionary War, we found a graphic novel for it. When we taught, 

221 

00:47:20.237 --> 00:47:32.616 

Dowan McNair-Lee: what was that that year? We talked the Revolutionary War. It was something else that has escaped… escapes me at the moment, but we found a graphic novel for it, because students were able to engage with the pictures, 

222 

00:47:33.017 --> 00:47:40.576 

Dowan McNair-Lee: And not saying that it took away from the gravity of the topic, But it helped them… 

223 

00:47:41.327 --> 00:47:48.507 

Dowan McNair-Lee: To be able to connect, and it also helped them to be able to engage with the topic 

224 

00:47:49.897 --> 00:47:58.647 

Dowan McNair-Lee: sometimes the text complexity blocks the engagement. And that was what I was finding with the, 

225 

00:48:00.397 --> 00:48:09.806 

Dowan McNair-Lee: the Ghana, Songhai, and Mali work was that the text complexity was blocking engagement. So, utilizing a graphic novel or a picture book 

226 

00:48:10.287 --> 00:48:15.646 

Dowan McNair-Lee: It gives them access in ways that sometimes isn't provided with just the text. 

227 

00:48:18.977 --> 00:48:20.337 

Dowan McNair-Lee: And then art. 

228 

00:48:20.447 --> 00:48:41.736 

Dowan McNair-Lee: art itself compels conversation. So when you have good art, and to me, children's book illustrators and pictures are art. Good art compels conversations, good art compels challenging conversations, and I think good art is a start to having those difficult… those conversations about difficult history. 

229 

00:48:43.897 --> 00:48:46.987 

Dowan McNair-Lee: I'm going back to the chat, because there was another… 

230 

00:48:46.987 --> 00:48:55.036 

Karly O'Brien, RIF: I know I start… I got really excited about this question, so I started getting eager to share some, resources that Riff had to… to answer some. 

231 

00:48:55.037 --> 00:48:55.977 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. 

232 

00:48:55.977 --> 00:49:04.337 

Karly O'Brien, RIF: questions, but DeJuan, if you have any other, like, other groups that you default to, or publishers that you enjoy… 

233 

00:49:04.547 --> 00:49:19.076 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Yes, so I think that, RIF, for me, and I'm not saying this because I'm here and, like, they're my people, but RIF, for me, really is, like, a clearinghouse of incredible text. It just is a place where I'm like, 

234 

00:49:19.457 --> 00:49:35.107 

Dowan McNair-Lee: I didn't know about that. I didn't know about that either. I didn't know about that either. But if you want to get your hands on stuff, sometimes, again, I know, budget, right? Budget and, time, everything. 

235 

00:49:35.287 --> 00:49:41.917 

Dowan McNair-Lee: I go straight… when I go to bookstores, I go straight to clearance racks. Like, straight to the clearance racks. 

236 

00:49:41.917 --> 00:49:57.336 

Dowan McNair-Lee: And some of the picture books that I've been able to grab off of the clearance rack, and sometimes it will be me looking at Riff and saying, oh, okay, this book is this, this book is this, this book, and hitting up a bookstore and their clearance rack, and being able to find it. 

237 

00:49:57.767 --> 00:50:15.387 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Honestly, also as a middle school teacher, going to the elementary level and asking them what are the great picture books they're using. Yes, thrift stores, absolutely. We used to get so many books from my daughter from, like, thrift stores and things like that. 

238 

00:50:15.907 --> 00:50:33.807 

Dowan McNair-Lee: But going to your elementary colleagues and asking them what are really good picture books that kids love, there is a picture book, and I… I don't want to mess y'all up, Erin, by saying this one, but The Rabbit Listened is, like, my favorite picture book ever. Like. 

239 

00:50:33.807 --> 00:50:50.036 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Ever. And anytime I'm like, oh, we gotta teach an SEL lesson, I'm gonna use the Rabbit Listen. It can be with first graders, it can be with 12th graders. We are using the Rabbit Listen because it is incredible. So think about the picture books that 

240 

00:50:50.157 --> 00:50:56.657 

Dowan McNair-Lee: first graders are reading? What are the picture books that third graders are reading? Because it's not just about… 

241 

00:50:59.457 --> 00:51:01.227 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Sometimes we have to… 

242 

00:51:01.377 --> 00:51:20.867 

Dowan McNair-Lee: disabuse ourselves of… if it's not in chapters, that it's not challenging. Just because it's not 300 pages and weighs 6 pounds, that does not mean that it's not engaging students cognitively. And I think we have to disabuse ourselves of that as upper grades teachers. 

243 

00:51:21.107 --> 00:51:22.727 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Quality text. 

244 

00:51:23.507 --> 00:51:25.527 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Can come in small packages. 

245 

00:51:25.917 --> 00:51:50.666 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Text that engages students, text that gets them reading, text that gets them excited about reading can come in small packages. It can come in small packages, it can come in small packages. So find the small packages, talk to your elementary teachers, find out what they're reading, find out what they're doing, and I think that's a great way of getting those great books that will help link you to those disciplinary lessons that you have to teach. 

246 

00:51:51.317 --> 00:51:55.777 

Dowan McNair-Lee: That was a really great question, it made me excited. Thank you. 

247 

00:51:55.777 --> 00:52:16.586 

Karly O'Brien, RIF: I'm excited about this next question, too, so I can go ahead and summarize it, but they… so we have a friend in the chat whose sixth graders read The Listening Thief and are very overwhelmed by the length of it, and there is a graphic novel version of this story. Side note, there… I feel like there's a lot of novels that do this now, that have graphic novel versions. 

248 

00:52:16.587 --> 00:52:22.397 

Karly O'Brien, RIF: So, her question is, Or more so, statement question, is that she's struggling of what role 

249 

00:52:22.517 --> 00:52:30.656 

Karly O'Brien, RIF: that she could use that graphic novel to support her instruction around, just the regular novel itself. I love that question. 

250 

00:52:30.657 --> 00:52:41.556 

Dowan McNair-Lee: I love that question, and, it makes me think about, when I was teaching the Revolutionary War unit, with my co-teacher, Chris Purdy, he's a great guy. 

251 

00:52:41.557 --> 00:52:54.567 

Dowan McNair-Lee: And we had… and Brooke Bazan was our third teacher. I had a class, we had 3 adults in the classroom, it was an inclusion class, and we had students on the autism spectrum, we had students with ADHD, learning disabilities. 

252 

00:52:54.567 --> 00:53:02.367 

Dowan McNair-Lee: And it was my last period of the day. 8th graders, my god. It was fun times, fun times. 

253 

00:53:02.367 --> 00:53:07.607 

Dowan McNair-Lee: But one of our students was nonverbal, but… 

254 

00:53:08.027 --> 00:53:33.016 

Dowan McNair-Lee: always wanted to be engaged, always wanted to be, learning, but was nonverbal. And when we were doing our Revolutionary War unit, we had to read The Ride of Paul Revere, and we found a graphic novel for it. And we were super excited to be able to find that, and we used that alongside of the text. So when we got, and especially in small groups, this is where I think 

255 

00:53:33.017 --> 00:53:39.447 

Dowan McNair-Lee: that small groups become. And I know as middle school teachers, sometimes we're like, oh my god, I only have 

256 

00:53:39.447 --> 00:53:45.707 

Dowan McNair-Lee: 47 minutes with these students anyway, and you want me… yes, and audiobooks are great as well. 

257 

00:53:45.707 --> 00:54:00.017 

Dowan McNair-Lee: and you want me to do a small group, but I think that if you say, on Friday, this group is going to be doing this, this group is going to be doing this, and I'm gonna pull a small group, and we're going to use this graphic novel, to work alongside of the text, 

258 

00:54:00.777 --> 00:54:11.306 

Dowan McNair-Lee: I know that when the district folks, or when principals and administrators want to come in the room, they want to see that all of the kids are working on the same text. 

259 

00:54:12.387 --> 00:54:20.096 

Dowan McNair-Lee: fine, but I also believe that we want to… we want the ideas to be accessible, and… 

260 

00:54:21.077 --> 00:54:35.917 

Dowan McNair-Lee: I think the question is how to use it is what you want your students to be able to get. Is there language in the… in the central text that you want students to be able to know and do and understand? 

261 

00:54:37.157 --> 00:54:39.586 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Or is it the idea? 

262 

00:54:39.917 --> 00:54:45.007 

Dowan McNair-Lee: And I think, for me, that's where… that's what helps me make the decision. 

263 

00:54:45.177 --> 00:55:07.777 

Dowan McNair-Lee: if there's something that the author does in this central text, and I'm like, okay, I want them to know this, like, this figurative language, I really want them to know and understand this, how this author writes, how this author conveys ideas, I really want them to get this, then yes, I think that the focus should be on that primary text. But if the text, if it's really about the idea. 

264 

00:55:07.777 --> 00:55:10.357 

Dowan McNair-Lee: then I might just lean on that graphic novel. 

265 

00:55:13.017 --> 00:55:28.807 

Dowan McNair-Lee: And that's really, like, a case-by-case basis, because sometimes you are reading for the language, and that's when you have to figure out how you're going to situate these two things in space. But for the Lightning Thief, I think that it's fine to do those in tandem. 

266 

00:55:30.237 --> 00:55:35.116 

Dowan McNair-Lee: You're welcome. These are fun. Any other… any other questions? 

267 

00:55:35.117 --> 00:55:44.046 

Karly O'Brien, RIF: I know, these are… these are awesome, and I'm… like, can't stop smiling with the engagement, so thank you all so much, this is just a wonderful conversation. 

268 

00:55:50.897 --> 00:56:10.167 

Karly O'Brien, RIF: Well, while we… while I have you here, well, first of all, before I do anything, thank you, Dewan, for your time. I know you are one of the busiest people I know, and this, was… was a crazy time in your life for this to happen, so thank you from the bottom of our heart. We love you at Riff, and if you need anything, we're here for you. 

269 

00:56:10.197 --> 00:56:21.426 

Karly O'Brien, RIF: While I have everyone else on the call, in the chat, I'm gonna put the registration link for our next webinar on the 19th, which is, around 

270 

00:56:21.427 --> 00:56:43.807 

Karly O'Brien, RIF: using AI in the classroom to improve your writing instruction, or how you can use it, the two in tandem. So, definitely encourage you to check that out. If you also go to… I'm gonna go put it in the chat right now, riff.org slash webinars, you can see our schedule for the rest of the year, and then also check out all of our past recordings as well. 

271 

00:56:44.627 --> 00:56:57.797 

Karly O'Brien, RIF: So thank you all so much for your time, and for being here, and being engaged, and just everything you're doing for your students. We wouldn't be able to do it without you all, so thank you so much, and thank you, Dawan. I wish I could hug you, but hugging you through the screen. 

272 

00:56:57.797 --> 00:56:59.437 

Dowan McNair-Lee: I have to come see you soon. 

273 

00:56:59.437 --> 00:57:06.937 

Karly O'Brien, RIF: I know, we're seriously, we're right near each other, why don't we see each other more often? Aaron's gonna have FOMO if we do that. 

274 

00:57:06.937 --> 00:57:10.577 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Right. Although I've seen Erin more than I've seen you, which is weird. 

275 

00:57:10.577 --> 00:57:12.127 

Karly O'Brien, RIF: I know, right? 

276 

00:57:13.147 --> 00:57:18.416 

Karly O'Brien, RIF: Oh, well, thank you all so much for joining, and hope to see you at the next one, and talk soon! 

277 

00:57:19.117 --> 00:57:20.106 

Karly O'Brien, RIF: Have a good night! 

278 

00:57:20.457 --> 00:57:21.797 

Dowan McNair-Lee: Hi, everybody! 

279 

00:57:21.797 --> 00:57:22.617 

Karly O'Brien, RIF: Bye!