Webinar Transcript

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Karly O'Brien: Throughout the presentation, I'm going to kind of turn my camera off and let our wonderful guests, who you've already gotten to hear from a little bit by engaging with us, let them lead the show, but I will still be here managing any questions in the chat. So, with that, let's get started. So, hi everyone, and welcome. We're super glad that you're here for tonight's Every Educator Counts webinar, Using Mentor Text to Teach

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Karly O'Brien: text structure. So, if you've joined us before, welcome back, and if this is your first time with us, we're so happy to have you, and you can revisit this session, as well as any past webinars in our archive. I'll be sure to drop links throughout the chat to give you all those resources. And just wanted to let you all know that closed captioning is available for the webinar, and we encourage you, again, to use the chat box and Q&A throughout to either ask questions, share ideas.

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Karly O'Brien: Or just reflect on anything that our presenters talk about.

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Karly O'Brien: So I'm super excited, because tonight we're diving deeper into writing instruction, which is what this entire series has been all about, which is an area that we know can be super powerful, but also can be complex at times. Teaching writing involves much more than the conventions. It requires intentional support around the structure, the genre, and the craft. So in tonight's interactive session, we'll explore how mentor texts can be used to inspire

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Karly O'Brien: young authors and support students as they write across genres. So, hopefully, you'll walk away with research-based strategies that make writing instruction more joyful, purposeful, and accessible for all of our learners.

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Karly O'Brien: So, quick note about us. For the last 60 years, Reading is Fundamental has been the nation's largest children's literacy nonprofit. Our mission has always been to inspire the joy of reading and ensure every child has the opportunities and resources to become a lifelong reader. So these webinars are just a small portion of our ongoing commitment to supporting educators with practical, classroom-ready tools that bring literacy

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Karly O'Brien: to life.

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Karly O'Brien: So, I'm super thrilled to be joined tonight by Hannah Schneewind and Dr. Jennifer Scoggin, founders of Trusting Readers, LLC. I love your last name, Hannah.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Well, it's very appropriate for… for tonight.

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Karly O'Brien: She sure is! And just a little bit about our wonderful presenters. Hannah has been a classroom teacher, curriculum writer, adjunct professor, keynote speaker, and national and international literacy consultant. She began her career teaching first and second grade in Brooklyn, New York.

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Karly O'Brien: Hannah is co-author of Trusting Readers, Powerful Practices for Independent Reading, and the upcoming text, Reading Matters. In addition to her work with teachers and students, she partners with Read to Grow, a Connecticut-based organization that promotes literacy for all children, bringing books to newborns, and traveling the state in the bookmobile.

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Karly O'Brien: And then Dr. Jennifer Scoggin collaborates with schools to create engaging literacy opportunities for children in elementary classrooms. She also began her teaching career, teaching first and second grade in Harlem, New York, and holds a doctorate in curriculum and instruction from Teachers College, Columbia University.

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Karly O'Brien: Jen is the co-author of Trusting Readers and the upcoming Reader Matters as well… Reading Matters, excuse me, and is a passionate advocate for teachers as professionals and decision makers. Together, Hannah and Jen, co-created Trusting Readers, LLC, a group dedicated to designing literacy experiences that invite all students to thrive as readers and writers. So, with that, we are so excited to learn from them

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Karly O'Brien: tonight, through their expertise and experiences. So with that, I'm going to turn it over to you all and stop sharing my screen so you can control it.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Thanks for all those lovely words! I'm gonna go ahead and share my screen, and I'm gonna do so in a way that feels like I know what I'm doing. Do you know what I mean?

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Jennifer and Hannah: It's always the hardest part of the whole thing.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Is it beautiful and lovely and large, Hannah, or no?

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Jennifer and Hannah: So you want to go to Slideshow, and then a.

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Jennifer and Hannah: And… I think I shared the wrong one. Let's just do this…

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Jennifer and Hannah: This is the worst part of life.

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Jennifer and Hannah: And then we'll go… no, this is wrong, Hannah.

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Jennifer and Hannah: I think that's as good as it gets, is if we go… Here we go.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Mine, just go to how it was the first time, then.

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Jennifer and Hannah: There we go.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Hmm. Well, now I can't see it at all.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Now, it didn't come up, so the very first time it did, it… it came up, it just was…

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Jennifer and Hannah: In presenter view, but that's fine.

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Jennifer and Hannah: You may have to do this. Sure. There we go.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Any better?

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Jennifer and Hannah: And we're gonna go to… Yeah, that's fine. Fantastic! Beautiful.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Oh my goodness, we're talking about teaching writing and not, like, a technology? Good lord, you'd think I'd be good at this by now. Anyway, we do know something about teaching writing. So tonight we're going to talk about a few things. We're going to start off with some big ideas about mentor texts in general, and really digging into how mentor techs specifically help writers, kind of like an argument for why they're

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Jennifer and Hannah: really important piece of our instructional toolbox. We're gonna give it a go. Hannah's gonna lead us through a little bit of writing to try some work with mentor texts, and then we're going to get specifically into text structures and how we might use some of those ideas around best practices in mentor text to dig into text structures.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Which is a tricky, kind of difficult concept to get, going with kids often. So, let's start by thinking about

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Jennifer and Hannah: what is a mentor text? And when I think about a mentor text, the first thing I think to myself is that a mentor text is familiar.

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Jennifer and Hannah: A mentor text, really, or the best mentor texts, are those books that you have shared with your children over and over and over again, so that they know those books inside and out as readers.

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Jennifer and Hannah: and then can study them as writers. Sometimes, in the classrooms in which I've worked, I've seen teachers diligently gather examples of mentor texts. Let's say they're going to write an argumentative essay, and they've gathered several of them in a bin, and they are all beautiful examples that children can turn to and think of as mentors.

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Jennifer and Hannah: but they aren't familiar. They were gathered solely for the purpose of, kind of exemplifying the writing that you're doing. And while those examples might be lovely and well-intentioned, we know that the research shows us the best mentor texts are those that you've used throughout the entire school year. To me, that's a little bit of a relief. It means that

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Jennifer and Hannah: You're looking for fewer examples, but examples you can use over and over and over again. So mentor texts are likely something you've read aloud.

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Jennifer and Hannah: several times. Another…

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Jennifer and Hannah: aspect we need to think about with a mentor text is that it can be any text. So, it can be a picture book, it could be, a short excerpt from a longer chapter book that you've read together. It could be a script from a podcast. It could be, a comic, in a graphic novel format. Anything can really be a mentor text.

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Jennifer and Hannah: And in addition to our, those types of mentor texts that feel more formal, that may be formally published, we can also turn to our own writing and students' writing as mentor texts. But really kind of expanding that definition about where can we turn to give kids the idea that writers study other writers.

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Jennifer and Hannah: And the writers of all kinds of writing.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Because a mentor text is really… its purpose is to be a window into complex writing.

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Jennifer and Hannah: I know that in a lot of classrooms, teachers embrace the idea that when they're teaching writing, they want to be writers themselves in front of their students.

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Jennifer and Hannah: And it is a wonderful, amazing practice to write in front of your students, and to show them how you might come up with a story, or how you might do informational writing. Absolutely keep doing that.

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Jennifer and Hannah: And we also don't want to be the only example. When we look at other mentors and we study these established authors, we're giving kids a sense of possibility, so that they understand how that writing goes, or how it might work, and giving them options rather than giving them a formula of one way that this writing can

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Jennifer and Hannah: go.

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Jennifer and Hannah: So, when we think about mentor texts, and, we've got this group of mentor texts together.

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Jennifer and Hannah: let's think a little bit about how specifically they help writers. Take a second, you can pop in the chat if you'd like, or just do a little bit of reflecting about your own life, both maybe you do some personal writing, or professional writing, or practical writing,

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Jennifer and Hannah: When I write, I know if I have to put a resume together, the first thing I do is I look at other resumes to figure out how to structure it. Hannah and I present at a lot of conferences. When you do that, you have to write a proposal.

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Jennifer and Hannah: I go to a mentor text right away to kind of wrap my brain around what I might want it to sound like. So even in my own life as a writer and someone who's writing a book, I often will turn to, other experts to get a sense of…

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Jennifer and Hannah: how I want to structure something, or the voice that I want to choose. So it's not really something I want you to see as siloed to the elementary classroom, or to the teaching of writing, but it's really… when we use mentor texts.

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Jennifer and Hannah: That idea is something we're setting our students up with for life, that as a writer, in perpetuity, you can always look to those writers whom you admire to help you kind of get your foot in the door, or to get started.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Because we know that mentor texts support all genre of writing. I know we often think of picture books, and that makes us kind of move towards fiction, but

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Jennifer and Hannah: we can use mentor texts to support everything from fantasy, to all about books, to literary essays, to an opinion piece or an editorial, to poetry. So when we're thinking about all of the writing that you might do across the year, letter writing, list making, all of that, there are mentor texts that you can get to support the work that you're doing with your students.

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Jennifer and Hannah: And when you use a mentor text, you're really expanding your student's understanding of a genre.

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Jennifer and Hannah: And the beautiful thing about a mentor text and studying writing as writers is you can start off with that question, what do you already know about this? You know, we're about to write a fantasy, or we're about to write an editorial, or we're about to write a letter to the principal. What do you already know about how to do that?

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Jennifer and Hannah: But then a mentor text can help us when we kind of gather information about what our kids already know. A mentor text can help us fill in what they don't know yet, but it can also help us to kind of,

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Jennifer and Hannah: alleviate or to address some of the misunderstandings students might have about a genre. For example, oftentimes, particularly with our littlest friends, when we bring up poetry.

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Jennifer and Hannah: A lot of kids are really surprised that all poetry doesn't rhyme. And having a mentor text to give kids examples of, here's one that does, here's one that doesn't, is really helpful to address those kinds of misunderstandings and to give them a sense of what's possible.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Of course, we have to worry about the standards, and mentor texts do that work for us. When you select a high-quality mentor text, likely, you can address a variety of standards, all the way from

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Jennifer and Hannah: What does it sound like to write a narrative? What do stories… how do they work?

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Jennifer and Hannah: all the way down to how do we use conventions of standard English grammar, right? How do we capitalize? How do we punctuate? So everything from the beginnings of our understandings of the genre, all the way to those final editing pieces, we can use a mentor text to support that work.

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Jennifer and Hannah: And of course, while the standards are important.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Hannah and I always approach instruction from the point of view of the student, right? So I'm always thinking, what do writers do? Well, writers move through a process. We really like Ruth Cullum's process of writing, and the terms that she uses, and so all the way from idea generation.

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Jennifer and Hannah: One thing I love about a great mentor text, particularly when you have,

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Jennifer and Hannah: the flaps on a picture book, or the blurb on the back of a larger chapter book, is sometimes authors will tell you from where they got their ideas. Like, they might say that they, you know, were in love with elephants in third grade, or they always wanted to write a story about this one experience. Like, those ideas of how real authors get their ideas can even, kind of inspire

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Jennifer and Hannah: how our students get their ideas. But then everything from, like, how that work is organized, let's examine the words that they've chosen, let's look at how they've organized the writing on the page, all of those decisions that writers have to make

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Jennifer and Hannah: Can be supported with mentor texts.

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Jennifer and Hannah: So, we're gonna move on, and move into the idea that one of the reasons we use mentor tasks

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Jennifer and Hannah: is that they elevate the level of student writing. So, simply put, mentor texts make student writing better.

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Jennifer and Hannah: And they make it easier for us to teach. Teaching writing is really, really hard. You, as the teacher, do not have to know everything about every genre, or how to write every genre. You can use mentor text to show the students. So it elevates the level of student writing, and it actually makes you a better writing teacher.

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Jennifer and Hannah: So, Jen had given the example of how, when you say to a class, we're going to write poetry.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Most of them think that poems rhyme.

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Jennifer and Hannah: And so one fabulous way of disrupting that is to read a lot of poems to them that

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Jennifer and Hannah: Do not rhyme. So, I have used this poem in kindergarten, I've used it in fifth grade, you could use it in middle school. There are many, many things in here that you could emulate. So, I'm going to go ahead and read it out loud, because poetry is also meant to be read aloud.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Lydia and Shirley have 2 pierced ears and 2 bare ones.

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Jennifer and Hannah: 5 pigtails, 2 pairs of sneakers, 2 berets, 2 smiles, 1 necklace, 1 bracelet, lots of stripes, and 1 good friendship.

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Jennifer and Hannah: So, just jot down for yourself what are some things that you noticed about the poem.

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Jennifer and Hannah: And now I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to show you what, children said about the poem. These are some of the things that some first graders said when I did this with them. It says exactly how the friends are the same and different.

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Jennifer and Hannah: And so this child was really focusing on the topic of the poem. The poem is one really long sentence. It repeats words, it doesn't rhyme. The most important part is at the end. So these are the students' words. So I did not say to the students.

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Jennifer and Hannah: you know, let's dissect this poem. Literally, you read it to them, you read it again, you read it again, they read it, you read it again over a few days, and then

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Jennifer and Hannah: they start to really notice all of these things, and then they're ready to try it themselves. So this is an example of what it looked like when a child tried it herself. So I typed it up because her own handwriting was a little difficult to read. My brother, me and my brother have.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Two pairs of eyes, one little body, and one big body. Two lives, two different attitudes. One head with curly hair, and one with straight hair. Two different points of view in one loving family.

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Jennifer and Hannah: So, you could think about.

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Jennifer and Hannah: how she used the structure of the poem. She used the idea of the numbers, right? 2 and 1. She used the idea of the most important sentence or thought is at the end, right? Two good friends, one loving family.

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Jennifer and Hannah: So she used that the topic is entirely her own.

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Jennifer and Hannah: So, that's just one example of how you can really use poetry to disrupt what they might already think they know about poetry. Yeah, it is. It's very cute, and completely doable, right? I could… you could show this to anyone, and kids could feel as if this is something that they could do.

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Jennifer and Hannah: So, Pam Allen is a beautiful mentor, actually, of ours. She writes about both reading and writing, and she talks a lot about the two of them really go together, that reading is like breathing in.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Right? So when we're reading to students, they're breathing in all of the beautiful language, and the text structure, and the different kinds of genres. Writing is breathing out, because the writing is when students actually get to do it themselves.

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Jennifer and Hannah: So, what does that look like when we actually go to work and we are doing that? Yes, it is, it's a beautiful quote.

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Jennifer and Hannah: So, we talk about that they're connected.

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Jennifer and Hannah: So the very first thing we want to do is for the students to just experience the text as readers. Nothing is more dire than reading a book and immediately saying, oh, what do you notice about this, right? So the first time, or the second time that we read it, we're just going to read it, and we're going to talk about it just the way you would in any

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Jennifer and Hannah: Read aloud.

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Jennifer and Hannah: You're going to discuss and analyze the text as readers, so maybe you're thinking about the character development, or the problem and solution, or you're thinking about new facts that you learned that were kind of surprising.

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Jennifer and Hannah: And only then are you going to go ahead and analyze the text as writers. Again, we don't want to ruin it for children, so we want them first just to enjoy it as readers, and then start to break it down and think about how we're going to use this as writers.

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Jennifer and Hannah: So, when you are ready to use it as a text for writing, you want to highlight one aspect of this book

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Jennifer and Hannah: writing.

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Jennifer and Hannah: You want to explicitly name what the writer is doing and why.

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Jennifer and Hannah: You want to show that part to students, and then write an example together. I will tell you that we might typically think of this as something that we do in the younger grades.

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Jennifer and Hannah: I will tell you that I do it with older kids, and they also love it.

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Jennifer and Hannah: So don't, you know, think, oh, that's just something kindergarten or first graders do. Everyone loves it. So you write an example together, and then finally, the students are ready to try it on their own. So you can see that this is really, really scaffolded. We're not just saying to the kids, this writer did this, now you go try it. There's a lot of very explicit teaching along the way.

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Jennifer and Hannah: So, are you ready to do a little writing?

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Jennifer and Hannah: You don't have to share it if you don't want to, but this is just for you. So, for about 1 minute, or 2 minutes, I'm looking at the time.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Think of a story from your life.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Think of something to do with a place, or maybe something to do with a person, or maybe something to do with a thing.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Maybe it's something that happened today, maybe it's something that happened 10 years ago.

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Jennifer and Hannah: And write the beginning of the story. Just the beginning. So go ahead, I'm going to give you

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Jennifer and Hannah: A minute to do that right now.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Okay, Jen, we can move on.

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Jennifer and Hannah: So, let's imagine that you had written that in class, and that as a class, we were talking about narratives. We were talking about how one thing writers do to get ideas is they think of things that have happened to them, and then they write it as a story.

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Jennifer and Hannah: So this story is called Jabari Jumps, and the author, Gaia, who happens to live in Connecticut, the author, Gaia, told me that she got the idea for the book because Jabari is her nephew, and this really happened to Jabari when he was 5 years old.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Jabari is now 15 years old, and now Jabari towers over her, but this is the true story of what happened to Jabari when he was

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Jennifer and Hannah: a little kid. So, imagine that we have read this book many, many times, and now we're ready to dive into really analyzing the text. So, this is how it begins.

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Jennifer and Hannah: I'm jumping off the board, the diving board, today, Jabari told his dad. Really? said his dad.

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Jennifer and Hannah: And what you probably are noticing is that the author starts the story with dialogue, the author starts the story by introducing us to two characters.

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Jennifer and Hannah: The author used different punctuation, because there's a comma after today, there's a question mark after really, and that the author also used

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Jennifer and Hannah: one, two different words for dialogue. So one is told, and one is sad.

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Jennifer and Hannah: So, there's a lot in there, right? I could use this to teach you how to punctuate dialogue properly. I could use this to show you how to punctuate with a question mark inside of dialogue properly. So, just from the first page, there's so many things.

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Jennifer and Hannah: But this is what I am going to teach you, is that one thing the author did was to start with dialogue, and the author did that to really get our attention.

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Jennifer and Hannah: And another thing that the author did was have somebody talk back to the main character. That's something that you could do in your own writing that really gets our attention.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Jen, if you could go on. Thanks! So this is what it would sound like, right? So you can see the…

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Jennifer and Hannah: I name it for the students, and then I tell them why. Again, I name what it is for the student, and then I tell them why it's important. Kids will come up with their own names for things.

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Jennifer and Hannah: So they might say, oh, the character talks back. They might say, two people are talking together.

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Jennifer and Hannah: So they also will come up with their own language. Then we're going to do some writing together, right? So, this is something that actually happened in my first grade classroom many, many years ago.

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Jennifer and Hannah: And then we wrote it all up together using this format. There's a moot mouse in my boot! Exclamation mark. Chris yelled. Oh, no, Miss Ed S said.

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Jennifer and Hannah: And so you can see there, we emulated the beginning exactly the way, the author of Jabari Jumps does.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Then, we were ready to have the kids try it. So, initially, this is what a first grader had. I went sledding down the big hill. I went by myself.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Then the kids all had the chance to revise after we did this, and look at the revision.

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Jennifer and Hannah: I'm going to go down the big hill by myself, I said. Are you scared? asked Mommy.

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Jennifer and Hannah: So you can see that that child revised it using Jabari Jumps. So I know sometimes people often ask us, well, is using a mentor text copying? And I think that this actually shows it's not.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Right? Because this is this child's story. It has nothing to do with jumping off a diving board, but what the author did take was that, beginning with punctuation, I believe it's even actually punctuated properly.

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Jennifer and Hannah: The word said, the word asked, so the… that child took a lot of things from the book.

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Jennifer and Hannah: So now, take a minute, and you're gonna do the same thing.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Go back to the story that you had written.

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Jennifer and Hannah: And now, start it again.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Maybe start it by having your main character say something.

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Jennifer and Hannah: And then have the other character answer. And why are you going to do that? Because it's one way that authors grab the reader's attention and bring their stories to life.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Does anyone want to put their beginning in the chat?

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Jennifer and Hannah: If you are feeling brave, please go ahead and do that. And if not, that's totally fine. But I hope that even doing this little bit shows you this feels so safe. Imagine if I just said to you, could you please go back and revise your beginning?

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Jennifer and Hannah: That would not be helpful at all. You'd have no idea what to do. But when I said, revise your beginning, include this, it feels very, very manageable.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Thanks, Hannah, and I really appreciate that Hannah used the word safe.

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Jennifer and Hannah: and manageable. When adults are writing, I know we feel really vulnerable, and we're asking our students to take a lot of risks to write alongside of us. So, giving them these examples where they can see the possibilities and try them out in a safe way is really critical. And the idea, Lester Laminac said it beautifully, is that

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Jennifer and Hannah: when we use our mentor text, and we're combining this idea of how and why they do something, right? So the author asks the two characters to speak to each other at the beginning, and you could see how Hannah mentioned there were a million different possibilities for instruction on just that one page alone that ranged from just the idea of beginning it that way, all the way down to how do we punctuate that dialogue.

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Jennifer and Hannah: correctly. When we talk about how Gaia did that, and why she did it to grab the reader's attention.

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Jennifer and Hannah: that really gives… it empowers our students to think about, oh, I can use this here, and now I know when, and I can use it at the beginning of a story, so that our children are gathering options and possibilities rather than formulas and, like, single ways to do things. So let's turn to informational text

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Jennifer and Hannah: structures, right? So, mentor texts really work with anything, but when we're talking about informational text structures in particular, so we're thinking about, you know, sequential text structures, compare and contrast, cause and effect, problem and solution and description, when we're looking at informational text.

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Jennifer and Hannah: That can be tricky to do both as readers and as raters. So let's take a look at how you might do that using some of the principles that Hannah was talking about in terms of best practices around mentor texts.

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Jennifer and Hannah: So, as Hannah mentioned, first we really want our students to spend time with these mentor texts as readers. So, a first step might be to identify each text structure as a reader.

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Jennifer and Hannah: And to gather texts where kids get experience looking at sequence. Maybe you've gathered a variety of books about just sequins.

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Jennifer and Hannah: You've gathered a variety of books where you're just looking at cause and effect, and readers can get a sense of, like, how does that work for me as a reader? How does it help me understand the main ideas and the key details an author is trying to expect, to share? So, you know, why are they doing it that way? How does it look to use those text structures?

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Jennifer and Hannah: So first, you want to really dive deeply into them as readers, and you'll see some examples here of informational picture books that do just that.

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Jennifer and Hannah: And there are a million resources out there where you can take a look at different picture book… book lists of, which text, which informational text picture books utilize which text structures. So once kids have a sense of them as

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Jennifer and Hannah: readers, then we need to analyze them. Like, we've wrapped our head around it. I know what compare and contrast is. I know what problem and solution is.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Now I want to look across all of those. So, maybe I'm going to look at frogs, or one topic. It could be something you're doing in your content area instruction, or if you're in the middle grades, it could be you partnering up with your colleague in science or social studies to explore a single tax, a single topic.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Across a number of books that utilize

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Jennifer and Hannah: different text structures. And again, now we're approaching it as readers, right? As a reader.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Which of these text structures do you prefer?

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Jennifer and Hannah: Why? Which did the author use here, and what did they use there? Why did they choose compare and contrast in this one, in frog or toad? But then, in the hidden life of a toad, why did the author, really talk about cause and effect? So.

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Jennifer and Hannah: How do those text structures impact our ability to read those stories? And starting to think about and discuss it as readers, so that you can move on to thinking about it as

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Jennifer and Hannah: writers. And here are two ideas that you could use to try some of this text structure work as writers. These ideas came from Melissa Stewart's website, which I cited down at the bottom.

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Jennifer and Hannah: She's the author of Five Types of Nonfiction, which is an absolutely brilliant book, if you haven't already checked it out. So as writers.

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Jennifer and Hannah: As readers, kids may understand Intellectually, how these text structures work, and how an author

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Jennifer and Hannah: and why they do it. But doing it yourself can be really challenging. So looking at, familiar mentor text and rewriting sentences using a specific text structure, like cause and effect. And if you go to Melissa Stewart's website, she has some beautiful examples of using a mentor text where you get some information, like,

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Jennifer and Hannah: elephant's trumpet to warn of danger. And you gather that information from a book, now put it into a sentence that really expresses or highlights that cause and effect relationship there.

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Jennifer and Hannah: The other thing you might try as writers is perhaps you dig into one of the familiar topics that you've studied in science or social studies, and as a group, you try writing about that familiar topic and making all those decisions an author might make. Which text structure should we utilize? Why should we utilize it? Let's start talking about what those sentences might sound like.

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Jennifer and Hannah: And constructing a shared writing, where you're in control of the pen, but students are in control of what the sentences might sound like, how might that writing be organized, and having that larger conversation where they get to give it a go as writers.

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Jennifer and Hannah: So that they can use it in their own writing. So here are some sample, sentences that students have crafted about the topics of elephants. And you can notice that each one of these sentences really captures

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Jennifer and Hannah: one text structure in particular. So, for example, when an elephant passes the bones of another elephant.

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Jennifer and Hannah: that has died, it stops to touch the bones to be respectful. So that really is illustrative of cause and effect. Or elephants are usually quiet, but they can trumpet loudly to scare off predators. We've got problem… and so we can think about all these different ways, that students can start to use

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Jennifer and Hannah: These kinds of sentences and thinking about text structure in their own writing once they've become very familiar with it as readers.

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Jennifer and Hannah: So when it comes to identifying your own mentor texts, if you are interested in mentor texts, we highly, highly, highly recommend Carl Anderson's work. He is the mentor text guru in our book, and this is his most recent book about mentor texts. It's really wonderful. And in it, he provides a lot of wonderful guidance about how to identify your own mentors

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Jennifer and Hannah: texts, whether you're thinking about using them for informational text structures or for other areas of writing you might be looking at in your classroom.

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Jennifer and Hannah: And…

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Jennifer and Hannah: Ken and I thought to gather these questions, they're really reflective questions, because we started today by thinking about how a mentor text is something that's familiar.

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Jennifer and Hannah: So we would urge you to start looking at your own collection, rather than going out and buying new books and trying to gather materials. Like, let's start with what you already have, which is probably pretty fantastic.

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Jennifer and Hannah: And start to look at those read-alouds, where you are reading it out loud, I know this has happened to you, where you're reading that book out loud, and in your mind, your internal narrative, like, dialogue is, oh, I could teach so much from that. Oh, I never noticed it die before. Oh, did you see that word? You know that there's… it's a very… it's rich with teaching possibilities, that you have texts that represent different levels of challenge.

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Jennifer and Hannah: that you make sure they're texts that kids can understand and are grade-level appropriate. So first start thinking about teaching potential, and pulling out those books from your existing collection that you really

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Jennifer and Hannah: find instrumental in your teaching. Perhaps you read them aloud all the time.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Then you want to ask yourself, as you look at that group of texts that you've gathered, and ask yourself some questions about representation.

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Jennifer and Hannah: So when we want our students to connect with the reading that we select for them, but also so that they can make those connections to what it might sound like to write about their own lives. So we want to make sure our students can see themselves, their interests, that they have a connection to that text, because we're going to read it a bunch of times, and also that there's a diversity of representation across that selection.

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Jennifer and Hannah: And then I think these are some of the most important questions, right, about joy. Like, do you love it? Because you're going to read it all the time, and if you love it, that's your teacher heart kind of telling you something, that, like, intuition, that this is a book that I could return to again and again. And also.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Do your students enjoy them? So that when you're having that discussion as a reader, then turning to it as a writer, it maintains kind of a level of joy and excitement.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Because as Ralph Fletcher so beautifully put it, not all readers are writers, but all of our writers are readers. And we want to highlight that idea that all writers, not just student writers, all writers in the world are readers, and they… they read to take in those ideas so that they can put their own out back into the world in really elegant way… eloquent

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Jennifer and Hannah: went ways.

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Jennifer and Hannah: So with that being said, we'd love to hear if anyone has any questions, before I stop sharing so I can… because I can't see the chat, and I'm terrible at sharing things, I guess.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Here's how you can reach us. If you're interested in reaching us with a question that might occur to you later, or you're interested in some of our other work, we're around and we respond to things.

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Jennifer and Hannah: But now we'd love to hear if you.

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Karly O'Brien: I'm gonna say, Jen, if you don't mind, I was looking at the, Excel, the, excuse me, the report of questions that folks were asking before the webinar started, and I was able to… I was able to gather some questions, if you want to take…

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Jennifer and Hannah: Can't do that.

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Karly O'Brien: Okay, cool, so the… one of the first ones was, do you have any go-to lesson plan templates or planning frameworks for using mentor text that teachers can use right away?

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Jennifer and Hannah: So, what I think of is…

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Jennifer and Hannah: what's the one thing that I want to pull out?

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Jennifer and Hannah: How am I going to name that one thing for students? How might we try it together?

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Jennifer and Hannah: And then, how might they do it? So, I'm always going to start by saying, so, writers, when we read… I'm going to go back to Jabari Jumps, because that's one thing we all looked at. Writers, over the past few days, we've all been looking at Jabari Jumps. One thing we noticed is that

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Jennifer and Hannah: And then I'm gonna name it.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Right, so one thing we notice is that she starts with dialogue, because that gets our attention. That's something that you can try.

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Jennifer and Hannah: And now, let's try it together.

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Jennifer and Hannah: And then we do our, you know, together, and now you go do it on your own. So, I hope that that helps, just to say it's, you know, and it's… I think what's really important is to stick to one thing. As teachers, we are

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Jennifer and Hannah: well, I'll say, I know, I am so guilty of this, of like, oh, and by the way, while I'm here, don't forget to do this thing. Oh, and do this thing. So, it actually… the kids' writing is going to be better if you do do one thing at a time.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Then you might…

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Jennifer and Hannah: at the end, let's say you take 4 or 5 things from Jabari Jumps, you might then put together a checklist for the kids, depending on what grade it is, that the students could then use themselves. So it doesn't have to be anything fancy, but I have dialogue, I used…

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Jennifer and Hannah: talking words, whatever you're, you know. If they're older, you would say dialogue tags, but first graders might just say talking words.

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Jennifer and Hannah: I used ellipses. I used noise words.

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Jennifer and Hannah: And then students could have that, and then they can use that as they kind of revise their own writing.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Jen.

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Jennifer and Hannah: I would also add, yeah, I mean, and so, one other thing that I would add is some of the ones I mentioned specifically for informational text features, Melissa Stewart has a variety of resources, so it's, melissa-stuart.com, like a dash, not a…

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Jennifer and Hannah: Underscore. And she has a lot of wonderful resources there. She doesn't have a template.

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Jennifer and Hannah: But what she does give you as a resource, I think, is really easy to apply in other scenarios. So, particularly if you're looking for informational text structures, she's your… she's your gal. And then Hannah and I are putting together a follow-up blog post, so that's something we can also address and put together something that captures what Hannah was saying about

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Jennifer and Hannah: Here's, like, how to capture our thinking when we're looking at mentor texts that maybe would be helpful.

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Karly O'Brien: Yeah, I love that, and I would also, if you all grant us permission, would love to also put that up on our site so that other folks can get access to that… that planning template.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Absolutely. Beautiful. Is there another question?

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Karly O'Brien: There was. So, the next one is something that resonates with me, for sure. So, it says, any… do you have any tips for using mentor texts when your curriculum is very behaviorist or skills-driven? I'm thinking more like… like reading curriculums, like, how do you find the time, or…

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Karly O'Brien: Comfort level to go outside of really scripted curriculums.

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Karly O'Brien: Yeah, right, do you have, do you have ours?

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Jennifer and Hannah: We have, we have a lot to say.

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Jennifer and Hannah: But, you know, that's very helpful. Jen, do you want to go first?

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Jennifer and Hannah: Well…

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Jennifer and Hannah: So you're talking really about going outside of some of the scripted curriculum, where the read-alouds and whatnot are prescribed, and is the writing then, therefore, prescribed?

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Karly O'Brien: Yeah, and I'm also… I mean, obviously, this wasn't… this is a question from someone else, the whole course. Hopefully, if they're here, they can clarify, but I'm…

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Karly O'Brien: I'm thinking with my experiences, like, I… I've had many teaching experiences where I had such heavily scripted curriculum that didn't even allot time in the day for a writer's workshop or writer's opportunities, so I guess…

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Karly O'Brien: Maybe another way to think of it is, like, how could we…

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Karly O'Brien: find the time to make… to maybe have more… less of those, like, formal writing opportunities, but maybe squeeze in some informal writing opportunities throughout the day for folks that don't feel like they don't have enough time to really dive into writing instruction. And

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Karly O'Brien: from my experience teaching 5th grade, I definitely felt that, because my 5th graders were expected to know how to write so much, and there was no time dedicated to really cover those foundational skills, so…

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Karly O'Brien: Yeah, maybe, do you all have any thoughts on, on that?

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Jennifer and Hannah: Oh, sorry, go ahead, Hannah.

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Jennifer and Hannah: So, I have, a few things, and Jen and I usually pick the same thing, so I might

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Jennifer and Hannah: Echoing one another.

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Jennifer and Hannah: So, just to address the issue of time, that is a very real issue.

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Jennifer and Hannah: One thing that I learned from Kelly Gallagher is this. If you are giving your students

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Jennifer and Hannah: 10 minutes of… he says reading, but I'm going to say writing, but 10 minutes of writing every day. That is 50 minutes over the course of the week. And think about all of that, and I'll never say wasted time, because as a classroom teacher, time is like this, right? You… you are using your time.

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Jennifer and Hannah: But if you add up the minutes, maybe where you could use them for something real, you know, even 10 minutes a day is 50 minutes of writing. That would be a lot of writing time.

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Jennifer and Hannah: So, one way to do it is to start every literacy block, everyone, we're starting with 10 minutes of writing, and if you put it at the beginning, it's not going to get eaten up by other things.

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Jennifer and Hannah: So that's one way of thinking about it. In the ideal world, do we have 45 minutes for writing and writing workshop? Absolutely. But I don't want anyone here to feel as if they couldn't use MentorText because they don't have that huge dedicated time.

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Jennifer and Hannah: And to piggyback off what Hannah's saying about time, often with teachers with whom I work in schools, I think sometimes when we focus on the day and the block, and the demands of the literacy block as per a curricular unit, it can feel really confining.

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Jennifer and Hannah: And so let's look a little bit bigger to look across the week.

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Jennifer and Hannah: and to even the month to say what are some of the writing opportunities that might fit naturally into other areas of the day, whether you're doing some sort of science or social studies, kids are studying something in music when they go out to their Unified Arts Specialists. Where does it make sense naturally? Can we put some more

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Jennifer and Hannah: writing, so that at least kids are writing for real purposes authentically, right? Like, if you're doing a science experiment, you write it up. If you're learning about a civics lesson, you probably have some submortative opinion about it at the end that you need to share. So, I think sometimes expanding your view beyond the block

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Jennifer and Hannah: Can help you define even those 10 minutes.

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Jennifer and Hannah: As to your question, though, when you're working in a scripted curriculum that's really foundations-based, I think that

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Jennifer and Hannah: perhaps is when mentor texts matter even more, because… and I might be misinterpreting your question, I think that's when we run the risk of teaching kids formulas, of writing in a very formulaic fashion.

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Jennifer and Hannah: So certainly using whatever it is you might, you know, sentence structure, or punctuation, or, you know.

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Jennifer and Hannah: how to write a paragraph. My own children, my personal children, have been taught many acronyms for how to write a paragraph. I'm like, guys, it's not that complicated. But, I think those are the moments where a mentor text to show kids options, is really helpful to kind of use that curricular resources. Yes, this is what we're talking about.

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Jennifer and Hannah: But maybe can I use some of that time to bring in other… examples.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Yep, and one more thought about, what Jen is saying is this. I do think about texts that multitask. That is to say, what is a text that might be teaching my students the content about frogs.

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Jennifer and Hannah: And so I'm going to read it as a read aloud, and I can use it in science, and it will serve as a mentor text.

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Jennifer and Hannah: So, it's one text, but it does all of these different things. So I'm going to read Jabari Jumps, because we can talk about theme and character development.

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Jennifer and Hannah: And then I'm going to use it because we can use it in writing, so that if you do have some wiggle room to be looking for tasks that, sorry, texts that multitask, and that actually is the name of a book, is mentor texts that…

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Jennifer and Hannah: Fantastic. Fantastic.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Yeah.

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Jennifer and Hannah: It's a good title.

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Karly O'Brien: Yeah, speaking of books that you all are suggesting, I was also heavily taking notes on all of the, like, professional books that you all were recommending for everyone, so thank you. I know people will be very appreciative of those recommendations as well.

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Karly O'Brien: And just thank you so much for… for everything tonight. This was so wonderful. I so often leave these webinars wishing that I was still an active, like, practitioner, classroom teacher, because I just want to go implement everything that you all just taught me, and it makes me miss it. So, I envy all of you that get to go try some of these strategies.

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Karly O'Brien: Tomorrow, if you don't live in a snow state, probably next week, if you do live in a snow-filled state.

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Karly O'Brien: But yeah, thank you again so much, Jen and Hannah, this was wonderful. And for those of you, that want to keep hearing more, they're also going to be guests on our RIF's new podcast called Reading Inspires, so please check out, that

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Karly O'Brien: interview, as well as many other interviews that we have uploaded, and many more to come. And be on the lookout for a follow-up email with links to everything, and the blog that Jen and Hannah are gonna write for us. They'll address so many more things and some questions. So, I'm really excited for all of this, and I'm excited for this partnership to continue to grow. So thank you all, Jen and Hannah. This was so much fun. Thank you.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Thank you for having us, and thank you to all of you for spending time with us on a Tuesday evening. We appreciate it.

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Jennifer and Hannah: You're getting lots of thank yous in the chat, so… Oh, that is lovely. Well, yes, thank you, everyone. This is so delightful.

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Karly O'Brien: It was. Thank you all, we'll chat soon.

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Jennifer and Hannah: Good evening. Thank you.

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Karly O'Brien: Bye.