Every Book Is a Mental Health Book with Jessica Jones White

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Welcome to Reading Inspires by Reading Is Fundamental.

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I'm your host, Dr. Erin Bailey.

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This podcast celebrates the power of books and the joy of reading.

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In each episode, we talk with educators, librarians, families, authors, and literacy champions to explore one big question: What does reading inspire for you?

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Through stories, research, and real-world experiences from classrooms, libraries, and homes, we explore what literacy looks like and why it matters.

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Whether you're nurturing young readers, shaping learning spaces, or simply love a good book, we're glad you're here.

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Be sure to subscribe to get the latest episode.

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Let's get inspired.

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Erin Bailey: I'm very excited.

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This month is Mental Health Awareness Month, the month of May, and we are joined today by Jessica Jones White.

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Jessica and I go way back because we did teach together at the Inspired Teaching Demonstration School, where Jessica is now the assistant principal.

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She's also an education consultant for the Creation Gym, and she's a licensed graduate professional counselor.

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Um, so she wears many hats.

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Jessica h- has also been a member of Reading is Fundamental's Middle School Family Literacy Advisory Board since 2022.

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She's done webinars for us.

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She's been so generous with her time and expertise.

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So welcome, Jessica.

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Jessica Jones: Thank you.

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I'm so excited to

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Erin Bailey: As I mentioned in that intro, you wear many hats, assistant principal, therapist, literacy advocate, content creator.

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Can you start by sharing a little bit about your personal journey?

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What first inspired your passion for connecting literacy to mental health?

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Jessica Jones: Yeah.

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So I would say it's a personal one.

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Um, I was the student who had a 504, who, you know, who was the hyper kid in the class, who really, um, zoned out in class with books.

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Like, I would finish my work early and I would zone out with books.

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I think that I made a connection with books early just in just a, a place to escape, but also to learn that other people struggle and it's just not me.

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And so I think ... I, I mention all that to say I, wind up going into the counseling realm to, and also education, to keep kids from having experiences like I had.

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And so that's how I, you know, even got into those two houses.

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And then to find out, you know, a lot of the students that I talk to use books as a pathway to kind of escape reality for a moment and, you know, dive into a good book.

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But also, it's also very useful in the clinical, um, practices that we do.

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So all those things married together, seeing what kids are going through in the classroom, knowing my own experience, and not wanting there to not be, a
pathway for success or for being understood or for getting the help you need, and all that added together to just be, you know, an advocate for literacy.

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Erin Bailey: are a strong advocate, and I am truly speaking from personal experience, having worked with you, Jessica, that I deeply appreciate when you bring your personal experiences into it.

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I think it Builds so much empathy.

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It models for students what you want them to do.

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And so here, like, here's an example.

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I was the reading specialist.

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Jessica was a classroom teacher, and whenever I would get assigned a student, she would bring to me like, "Here's what I'm noticing about them in the classroom. Here's what is going on
at home that I've heard from their parents or that the child's told me." And I think what a lot of people don't think about is all of these things go into a child's literacy development.

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We don't-- The dots might not be A to B, but in fact, things that are happening at home in a child's life or, you know, maybe they feel so full of energy they can't contain themselves sometimes.

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Like, all of these impact a child's ability to read and write.

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Jessica Jones: 100%, and, and it often correlates with access, right?

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So it's like, you know, I find a lot of times, not all the time, you know, not creating any stereotypes, but we find connections between families who need additional
support and them being able to go to the library or pick up a brand new book or get them a used book or even sit down and say, "Okay, this is how you sound these words out."

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They're often working.

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They're often, you know, trying to manage the home.

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And so yeah, all those things, you know, matter whether we see the direct paths to them or whether we find out through our experiences that they matter.

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Erin Bailey: Yeah, absolutely.

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Um, so I'll link this below, but, uh, you recently did a webinar for Reading Is Fundamental: Every Book Is a Mental Health Book.

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Um, can you explain a little bit what you mean by that, and why is that message important for educators and families right now?

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Jessica Jones: Yeah, so books are a lot like parallels to reality, just like movies and television shows, but the thing that books do differently is It doesn't create the image for you.

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You have to imagine those things on your own.

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There's some part of it that is a narrative, how you imagine what you're reading, and that's, that's the narrative part of it.

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And, um, with, with all of those things, when you have these parallels to reality, you're experiencing things.

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Much like if your friend tells you about they learned a lesson.

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They were riding their bike too hard down the hill, and they skinned their knee.

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Okay, now you have learned from that person's reality a, an experience or a lesson, and you take it with you.

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You might internalize it and maybe become... You might be wary of the hills, or you might just be careful going down the hill.

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Either way, once you have a, a opening to, reality that someone is existing in or experiencing, you can often empathize or picture how that matches, you know, something you could experience, and then you learn from that.

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it's, it's very similar to observational learning, social learning, and a lot of people would say that's how most humans learn socially.

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And so, all of those things come together when you're reading a book.

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It's, it's very similar to talking to a friend about something they learned.

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And so when we open a book, when there's...

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especially when there's characters, whether it's a fiction book or a nonfiction book, it's usually people-centered through characters or through the persons whose story is being told.

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So then we as humans relate to other humans.

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and it's just, it's an exceptional way to have kids have more experiences of a person's reality or a subject's reality, even it could be an animal, and learn through that or absorb it as a, you know, as an experience of their own.

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and when used properly, it can actually accelerate a lot of wisdom, knowledge, and experience, emotional intelligence for, for the person who's reading it.

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And so that's how every book becomes a mental health book.

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and then there's this also this part of you, with, with mental health, being able to see how someone navigates those challenges or see the consequences of actions or see the output of a great effort.

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You know, there's so many things you can experience.

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It also allows people to imagine how their life could look different for themselves.

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It invokes thoughts about change.

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It invokes, thoughts about, well, how can I control my experience the same way this character or this subject did?

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And so there's that part of it as well of like, being able to show people, um, coping strategies or tools or, um, how to execute something
differently that they could try in their own life without actually having to just be, you know, testing it out for the first time themselves.

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Just like, "Here's this path. I've already laid it out for you. Now see if it fits for you." Um, so there's that, there's, there's, there's that part of it as well.

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And so it's ... I see it as very multifaceted, but, you know, it's observing, learning through observation, learning that tools exist.

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And then there's also the part that's very structured bibliotherapy, which is what I talk about in the webinar, which is having intentional learning experiences built to
highlight those moments that subjects or characters are having in the story, and allowing, the, the reader to take in and understand that they can take from this experience.

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So if they're not doing it on their own and coming to those conclusions on their own, or need some facilitation to come to those conclusions, you have, like, those bibliotherapy-style moments where you're making
these planned lessons around read-alouds, around chapter reading, around novels and book studies that allow there to be a pathway to c- create a structured environment so that you can learn from the tools you saw.

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You can pick up and think of your own tools.

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You can see the possibilities, and you can observe other people's reality.

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And, you know, ultimately, if nothing else happens, you learn more of a way to empa- empathize 'cause you learn more about others' experience

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Erin Bailey: I'm wondering too if you're des- as you're describing this, are non-examples helpful too for this, like, observe and learn?

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Like, if a child is reading and they see a character behaving in a way that they're like, "I don't wanna handle the situation that way," or, "I don't think that c- character handled that situation, you know, the right way," can they learn through that too?

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Jessica Jones: Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's a part of social learning, it's a part of observational learning.

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If it's, not to, like, bring it into too much of a clinical realm, but, like, if there's a trial, if the mouse goes and gets the cheese and the tail gets snapped, all the other mice

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Erin Bailey: Yeah.

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Jessica Jones: And so this is very similar.

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They're observing someone else's reality, whether it's a positive reality or one where they're navigating trials and circumstances, but that is a learned experience.

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And for people who can access that type of learning on their own, great, read a book and learn.

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For people who maybe need some support or you wanna be sure they've accessed that learning, you create some structured lessons or structured moments to make sure you build those connections.

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Um, and what I like about what authors do is they typically make it really, uh, clear, depending on the developmental age, the outcomes of those, you know, this didn't go so well type of experiences.

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Um, like our kids right now are reading Of Mice and Men, and they just, like, learn so much from George and Lennie and like, "Okay, I'm not gonna do that to my friend."

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And, you know, they're able to observe how that ended for George and Lennie in, in the, you know, the outcomes, and then they're able to navigate it.

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So that's just an example of like, okay, maybe not so positive, but I still learn from observing how that could land.

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Even in a fictional realm, um, I talk about this all the time with kids who like superhero stories.

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We know that's fiction, but they learn a great deal about, um, making choices that impact a larger, uh, audience of people without considering them.

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They learn, okay, well, so and so superhero saved them from the building, but who's gonna fix the building?

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They, you know, they think about all of those things, and it's great to hear them come and talk to me about those things when we talk about what they're reading.

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Erin Bailey: That was me.

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I was the kid who always wondered who's gonna fix the building.

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Or those movies where the parents go out of town and the teenagers destroy the house.

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I, I'm like, "What's gonna happen to the hou-" I'm not worried about I'm not worried about the consequences for the teens, but what is going to happen to the house?

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Who's gonna clean that up?

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So I'm glad that they can address that too.

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And I think, I'm sure there are also some children out there, I might include my own child in this, who just simply have to learn through experience.

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So maybe it's like rather than front-loading the lesson, it's a, "Hey, you learned this kind of the hard way, and here's...

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Now we're gonna read a story.

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Here's a character that went through something similar, so at least you can see, you know, you're not the only one who makes mistakes and learns through making mistakes."

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Jessica Jones: Right, and you have those cathartic experiences where you're like, "Okay, I can totally relate to this character and what happened to them and those outcomes." And
honestly, there's a lot of stories where, okay, this outcome happened to me, and I kind of got like the, the medium version, the mild version of what could've really happened.

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And so let me s- let me let you see the spicy version of where this could've went, um, had it not fallen in your favor.

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There's also that.

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Erin Bailey: That's a great... Yeah, that's a great point too.

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Um, so I love the word bibliotherapy.

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Uh, it's a new word, but when you explain it, it makes so much sense.

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Many teachers and parents out there, they're already doing this without realizing it.

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What does bibliotherapy look like in everyday classrooms and homes?

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Jessica Jones: Yeah, so everyday classrooms and homes, bibliotherapy looks like your read aloud, um, your bedtime story, your f- if you're reading a family novel together, you know, you're sitting down, you're reading the family novel.

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For me and my family, it was like, um, nighttime Bible stories, and we're sitting down and we're learning from whatever happens to the characters, you know?

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Um, so that's what it looks like.

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In your community spaces, it looks like your Saturday library read alouds that your librarians might do, or book clubs that your kids might be involved in or like the community library where people check it out and write a little note in the back.

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Um, although those are less structured, if your community puts in a structured time to discuss the book and talk about the access of empathy
and emotional experiences or even what the characters are learning, they're essentially doing some version of developmental bi- bibliotherapy.

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Erin Bailey: That's great.

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And I know, like, the idea of every book is a mental health book and bibliotherapy is that r- truly you can use any books for it.

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But do you have any recommendations of what, um, educators or families might look for in books to be very intentional about, um, teaching emotional regulation, empathy, identity development, any of the kind of SEL concepts?

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Jessica Jones: Yeah, it's all about the pre-read or sourcing your material with other lists that are, like, identified for social emotional learning.

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And so there's a lot of, companies, publishers who create social emotional collections and then list them, and then talk about which, uh, avenues those, those books, you know, best address or, There's also, like, schools that do the same things.

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Clinical spaces might have lists and recommendations, and often sometimes libraries.

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And so you can source, like, a book through a collection that's being presented, or you can do, like, a pre-read.

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So, you know, you go to your local bookstore, there's a section on heroes and journeys, and you really want your, kid to learn, like, uh,
perseverance may result in success, or may not result in success, but it's more about the journey of perseverance and what you learn from it.

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Cool, you find your hero's journey book, you read the back of a couple of them, and you decide to, like, screen it, es- essentially.

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Or, you know, we can use our good old Smar- SparkNotes and other things that exist.

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I don't know, I'm dating myself 'cause I don't even know if people use SparkNotes anymore but, um, you screen the book essentially, and then you decide, what is it that you got
from it yourself, and if you can create that experience for your kid or your student, you know, that same parallel experience that you had yourself when you screened the book.

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Um, for educators, like pre-K, to upper elementary who are reading picture books, screen it.

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Read it fully, digest it, take, take a moment to say, you know, "If I was a student reading this, what calls out to me and what do I need to call out that's right below the surface?" Make your little sticky notes as you read.

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Like, oh, this is great for, um, bringing in body language 'cause there's a good, uh, illustration of body language, or this is really
great for empathy 'cause this character talks in detail about how it, like, you know, changed them or imp- impacted them internally.

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So screening and looking at pre-screened collections, um, similar to the ones that RIF has as well

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Erin Bailey: Yes, I will certainly link below.

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Riff does have a wellness center, and what we've done on that center is we've analyzed the top social-emotional learning curriculums used in the US, and then we've pulled out the major concepts and attached book lists to each of those concepts.

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So if you don't know where to start in your journey of pairing read-alouds with your SEL curriculum, um, this is a great place to shar- start.

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And I will be sure to link that below for you all.

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so I al- so ... But what I got from that was do not just cold read a book.

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Like screen it first.

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And the sticky notes, I love that, and I think kids kinda like it too.

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I used to do that as a teacher, just write, you know, maybe it was a question or a prompt or a vocabulary word that I was going to teach on that page.

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And then the ... You know, you have those students that it helps them.

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They see the sticky note coming up, and they're like, "Oh, what's, what's she gonna ask me on this page?" Or, "What kind of vocabulary word are we going
to learn about on this page?" So I think it's good for those kind of visual learners too, that it prompts them that something's coming up on this page.

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Jessica Jones: And it's also an emotional primer, right?

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So if it's something that's heavy and you're discussing it throughout the book, you know, each time the sticky note comes, you might have a conversation around something.

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So yeah

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Erin Bailey: That's a great point, too.

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What do you recommend for books, the way you just said, that may feel heavy?

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Like, what's a great way for either families or educators to pre- you know, let students know that it could be a heavy topic for them before reading that book?

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Jessica Jones: Yeah.

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So I recommend co-regulation openers and content previews.

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So a co-regulation opener is just helping you, the reader, or the person who's gonna digest the material, be in their body and be aware of how they're feeling prior to it.

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And so it may just be some four-seven-eight box breathing, a couple, you know, mindful breaths, a moment of silence, um, those type of, uh, co-regulation spaces.

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And what makes it co-regulation is the reader does it, and the person experiencing the read does it as well.

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The, that modeling and that, you know, uh, dual experience, if you will, helps to... And there's lots of research on co-regulation, helps to kinda create a baseline before you enter this emotional experience or before you enter the, the story, if you will.

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And then the content preview is a primer that helps you to know what you are preparing yourself for and what you're about to enter.

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And so doing a co-regulation and content preview is going to be a good foundation for a story that is going to possibly bring some things out for a student, even if it's happiness, right?

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Okay, we know what joy in the classroom looks like.

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We like to be loud.

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We love it.

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But if you know there's gonna be a page that's super exciting, you might wanna preview that.

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Like, "There is a surprise.

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There's a pop-out page.

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There's a this or that.

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Be ready, and we're gonna do silent claps, or we're gonna..."

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You know, so just get them ready for those moments, whether they're highs or lows

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Erin Bailey: you ever feel like-- So I'm going back to when I was a first grade teacher, and it's like you plan this beautiful read-aloud, you're gonna do it, but then everyone comes back from
recess, and even with some kind of co-regulation, you know, I did rainbow breathing or balloon breath where it-- the like, the energy is just not right and you're like, "I don't-- Like, even
though I had this planned, I don't think we're ready to tackle this heavy topic right now," and like, "Let me change it up and do a silly read-aloud instead to match the mood of the class."

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Jessica Jones: Yeah.

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That's where, like, your restorative chats or working with your school counselor comes in, but also, like, your demonstration of, like, discernment.

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So, like,

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Erin Bailey: Mm.

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Jessica Jones: the c- the content preview, and in my content preview I'm, I'm asking kids, "Are we ready to open the book?" And I'm getting some kids saying, "No, we're n- I'm not ready to open the book."

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You know, you might then say, "Okay, class, let's choose another book together," and then you get something lighter, something, you
know ... Like, even if you have, like, a ... What I really recommend is have, like, a go-to book that helps kids get to baseline.

00:19:53.173 --> 00:20:04.163
Like, there's lots of books on mindfulness, on belly breathing, on all those things that feel very neutral that you can, like, pivot to if during your content preview you don't get the response you want.

00:20:04.823 --> 00:20:07.783
And so say you read the book, and the content preview went fine.

00:20:07.783 --> 00:20:11.413
The kids were like, "Yeah, we got this." And then after that they're like, "We don't have this.

00:20:11.413 --> 00:20:15.213
We're in tears." Um, we, we, we just ... This was a lot.

00:20:15.603 --> 00:20:21.443
Um, the kids when they finished reading, I think it was House on Mango Street, everybody had their feelings about it.

00:20:21.473 --> 00:20:38.503
And so there ... We held space and, like, "If you need to talk to a school counselor, if you need to talk to a trusted adult just about how you're hav-
having feelings right now, we can make that space for it. If we need to stop and journal how we're feeling and get it out on paper, we can make space for it."

00:20:38.793 --> 00:20:42.823
Overall, you just have to be ready for the pivot and have discernment of the space.

00:20:43.083 --> 00:20:44.783
You can also survey the space.

00:20:44.933 --> 00:20:54.193
Like, "Friends, I want you to just draw on a sticky note emoji that expresses how you're feeling after this reading." And then that can be also a closer.

00:20:55.113 --> 00:21:01.583
The other thing is, like, when you close a book, you do wanna use a c- a co-regulation closer as well.

00:21:01.913 --> 00:21:11.893
And so that same way that you open the door to enter a vulnerable space, you wanna return to safety and close that door with a co-regulation closer.

00:21:12.223 --> 00:21:19.033
And so in having that door open and close at the beginning and the end, that's also another opportunity to get feelers.

00:21:19.033 --> 00:21:28.423
If you feel the vibes in the room or you're looking at the faces and you're like, "Eh," part of your co-regulation closer could be, "Draw an, a emoji on your Post-It how you're feeling right now.

00:21:28.453 --> 00:21:29.143
Pass that to me.

00:21:29.143 --> 00:21:36.513
This is for me and my eyes only, and then we're gonna take some deep breaths." And so that way you have, like, a exit ticket, if you will, an idea of how that's going.

00:21:36.513 --> 00:21:39.893
You could even do that if it's, like, a- story at night before you go to bed.

00:21:40.003 --> 00:21:41.693
You know, draw on the sticky, give it to mommy.

00:21:41.773 --> 00:21:42.633
She's gonna look at it.

00:21:42.633 --> 00:21:45.283
Or give it to, to whoever is reading it, right?

00:21:45.643 --> 00:21:48.463
And so those are some of the tools that you could use.

00:21:48.463 --> 00:21:52.703
You get back from recess, vibes aren't feeling good, you have that restorative chat.

00:21:52.763 --> 00:21:54.463
"Hey class, let's circle up real quick.

00:21:54.463 --> 00:22:00.473
All right, so we've got the, I saw some s- happy faces, some sad faces, and some okay faces on our emojis.

00:22:00.813 --> 00:22:08.023
We went to recess, and then I feel a lot of sad energy or a lot of low energy as we come back, and I wanna make sure we're all okay.

00:22:08.413 --> 00:22:10.833
I wanna open the floor for whoever wants to share.

00:22:11.623 --> 00:22:13.153
If no one wants to share, this is okay.

00:22:13.453 --> 00:22:14.463
We can sit in silence.

00:22:14.463 --> 00:22:20.113
Sometimes silence alone helps us feel better." And you know, you sit in that circle, you try to restore the space.

00:22:20.113 --> 00:22:27.393
There's not a particular person you're restoring with, but there's the class restoring that space of r- and returning to safety.

00:22:28.318 --> 00:22:29.028
Erin Bailey: I love that.

00:22:29.058 --> 00:22:49.478
And then do you feel like it's a good opportunity to bring-- to involve families too, to just send a note on, you know, your Google Classroom or whatever you use that's like, "Hey, we read 'The
Boy With The Big Feelings-- The Big, Big Feelings' today, and we talked about big feelings." Like just a heads-up, maybe ask your child about it when they get home or, or something like that?

00:22:50.093 --> 00:22:51.153
Jessica Jones: Yes, 100%.

00:22:51.153 --> 00:22:59.303
Like, if your school uses weekly update, like our school has a weekly update where we preview what's happening the, the next week, that's a perfect spot for that.

00:22:59.533 --> 00:23:07.953
Or if you have like a class dojo or a deeds list or some type of profile where you can text families, sending a quick text like, "Hey, this is a book we read.

00:23:08.153 --> 00:23:15.330
It's ... It may be hard." and you may wanna have a conversation to continue their learning at home or just kind of decompress how they received it.

00:23:15.610 --> 00:23:29.283
Um, we, like when we read books like The Hate U Give or when they watch, movies in conjunction with their, um, curriculum, like 42, the Jackie Robinson story, we usually send permission slips and things like that home to say, can this

00:23:29.283 --> 00:23:31.713
You know, do you want them to opt out of this experience?

00:23:32.073 --> 00:23:34.493
Um, is there a reason for them to opt out of this experience?

00:23:34.493 --> 00:23:38.523
And that's another way you can like do a content preview with families.

00:23:38.893 --> 00:23:46.883
Um, there's the reactive part of, hey, we, we, we did this, and there's the content preview part of like, update, we're doing this, or permission, we're doing this.

00:23:47.213 --> 00:24:07.043
So that that way there's some autonomy on what you want your, you know, child to experience in their curricular experiences, but also how we as family members
or, or as the supportive community can help make sure that the intention for, um, the engagement with that particular, um, media is where it's supposed to be

00:24:07.773 --> 00:24:18.213
Erin Bailey: Yeah, I, I love that and I appreciate it so much, um, you know, involving, uh, families to every degree possible, but not just reactive, but proactive as well.

00:24:18.608 --> 00:24:35.338
speaking of families, I know this is kind of everywhere right now, and I've written about this topic, like reading for pleasure at home,
families reading to their children is really at an all-time low, and a lot of experts relate it to screen time, the increases of screen time.

00:24:35.718 --> 00:24:50.948
Can you share a little bit what has been your experiences with that, and how can fam- you know, what, what are the implications for increased screen time, and how can families help children rediscover reading joy in a screen-saturated world?

00:24:51.503 --> 00:24:51.903
Jessica Jones: Yeah.

00:24:52.063 --> 00:24:56.643
And I'll say something maybe a little bit pro- provocative, but it's screen time on both sides.

00:24:56.903 --> 00:24:58.503
We're seeing families on their screens

00:24:58.788 --> 00:24:59.538
Erin Bailey: Oh, yeah.

00:24:59.883 --> 00:25:02.663
Jessica Jones: kids less 'cause they're working, they're handling business.

00:25:03.033 --> 00:25:10.453
Um, and then there's less opportunities for families to be open and available to engage in the work that they wanna do with their kids.

00:25:10.723 --> 00:25:20.683
Um, not because they don't want to or they don't care, but because of the limitations right now for society calls for m- more work or more, uh, things to do.

00:25:21.054 --> 00:25:28.314
and then on the other side with the, the kids, actually the screen battle is tremendous.

00:25:28.781 --> 00:25:35.291
And as a clinician, I see it more of a battle of entertainment than screens, um, in particular.

00:25:35.291 --> 00:25:40.671
Like screens is the form, the medium in which it's being presented, but overall it's constant entertainment.

00:25:41.161 --> 00:25:48.521
I want this constant injection of dopamine from this little 30-second video I watched or this YouTube Short.

00:25:49.072 --> 00:26:01.446
the fact that we are conditioning brains to be constantly entertained and constantly looking for dopamine is creating this, hunger, like internally, for entertainment.

00:26:01.786 --> 00:26:08.466
And the easiest form of guaranteed entertainment is self-selected things on a screen.

00:26:08.666 --> 00:26:14.636
You can ... You, you know that when you go to your favorite, um, YouTuber's video, you're going to be entertained.

00:26:15.006 --> 00:26:20.706
You know when you swipe and scroll and swipe and scroll and like photos, you're going to be entertained.

00:26:21.016 --> 00:26:27.666
And so you have this surefied way to get that, that dopamine release or that satisfaction of entertainment.

00:26:27.996 --> 00:26:30.896
With a book, people who read books, we know how that goes.

00:26:31.256 --> 00:26:32.316
It may be hit or miss.

00:26:32.316 --> 00:26:40.536
You might read a really, really great book and be like, "Oh, that was excellent." And then you get ... You know, you might get two chapters into a book and you're like, "Oh, that was disappointing.

00:26:40.536 --> 00:26:43.586
I thought it was gonna be better." And so there's, there's that.

00:26:43.926 --> 00:26:47.725
But then there's also, like- Everything, everything is connected.

00:26:47.845 --> 00:26:57.285
If there's less time to engage in literacy, you have a less con- a context-rich environment where you are looking at print and you're looking at words and images.

00:26:57.645 --> 00:27:02.095
If that environment reduces, your engagement with books reduces.

00:27:02.465 --> 00:27:11.168
In turn, like in turn, your ability to interact with literary, medias, are going to be limited as well.

00:27:11.238 --> 00:27:20.872
So your development in reading is also, gonna be, uh, impacted, and then that impacts your ability to be entertained with a book.

00:27:21.242 --> 00:27:32.612
You know, if I can't digest and understand what the author is sharing with me, I don't- I'm not receiving that same amount of entertainment where when I have this audiovisual presentation, it's much easier to access.

00:27:32.922 --> 00:28:01.130
And so I... There are several ways I see this problem being solved is making, reading and the ability to be able to read and digest, texts more accessible, and, having families understand the impact of
the early years and formative years, how important it is for, um, books to be accessible, and that includes the ability to, to digest them, and letting that be the stepping stone to pleasure reading.

00:28:01.530 --> 00:28:17.570
Um, because if I... Yeah, if I cannot picture that movie in my brain while I'm reading or if I can't connect with the characters
because I'm not under- comprehending what's written, it is hard for me to buy into or want to continue to engage with this experience.

00:28:17.570 --> 00:28:33.950
And so at the baseline, it becomes we make sure kids can read, we make sure kids can read very early in life, and then we connect them with texts that they find entertaining, which the last part is the easiest part.

00:28:34.263 --> 00:28:35.623
there's a topic for everybody.

00:28:36.193 --> 00:28:41.703
It is how do I get you excited about reading and how do I get you to be able to read?

00:28:42.308 --> 00:28:44.808
Erin Bailey: Yeah, I've, I've shared that before on this podcast.

00:28:44.808 --> 00:28:51.888
There's, no such thing as somebody who's not interested in reading, they just haven't found the right book yet.

00:28:51.918 --> 00:28:54.328
You know, there are no non-readers out there.

00:28:54.328 --> 00:28:59.158
They truly just need to be connected with the correct, with the right book, a book that resonates with them.

00:28:59.158 --> 00:29:15.098
But it's, it's interesting, too, the way you're describing it, because my understanding is when you're scrolling and, and looking at
videos, there is an algorithm then that takes in exactly what you've spent a longer amount of time on and then feeds you more of that.

00:29:15.098 --> 00:29:17.808
And to your point, like, books don't do that.

00:29:17.838 --> 00:29:19.508
It, at least right now, they don't.

00:29:19.508 --> 00:29:32.105
I know there's some, you know, algorithms out there that help people shopping online for books, like, you might like this, but certainly it's not happening instantaneously the way that it is when you're sc- when you're scrolling on your phone.

00:29:32.105 --> 00:29:48.084
So I wonder if it is that, like, we've entered phase where everything is just too instant and at our fingertips, and reading requires a slowing down that we are not, like, hardwiring our brains to be able to do now.

00:29:48.454 --> 00:29:53.744
Jessica Jones: Yes, our society as a whole struggles with delayed gratification.

00:29:53.905 --> 00:29:56.255
yeah, this is, this is a society-wide issue.

00:29:56.295 --> 00:30:05.125
I just remember being a kid in the '90s and going on road trips from Virginia to New York, and all, all you had was yourself and a book.

00:30:05.595 --> 00:30:08.245
There was no phone, there was no videos.

00:30:08.245 --> 00:30:11.105
This was before you had, like, the TVs in the car.

00:30:11.385 --> 00:30:14.055
It was just you, the road, and a, and a book maybe.

00:30:14.215 --> 00:30:18.245
Um, and those were your choices for entertainment, and you had your imagination.

00:30:18.245 --> 00:30:21.905
You could be telling your own story or you'd be digesting another one.

00:30:22.365 --> 00:30:27.015
Now there's so many options for entertainment at any time and any place.

00:30:27.135 --> 00:30:28.725
It's just constantly accessible.

00:30:28.725 --> 00:30:34.195
So, um, not only is it I'm being entertained, but I'm being entertained when I wanna be entertained.

00:30:34.515 --> 00:30:43.115
And there is little to no delay, delays that, um, to, to feeling fulfilled if I'm given open access to those things.

00:30:43.435 --> 00:30:59.405
And so it's really about striking a balance and prioritizing, their development and their ability to use their imagination, their ability to have delayed gratification to, to, um, exercise s- you know, whatever patience they may have.

00:30:59.688 --> 00:31:02.628
And that might look different on every developmental level.

00:31:02.668 --> 00:31:06.598
When we opened, I talked about how I was the kid who I needed something to do.

00:31:06.598 --> 00:31:24.179
I needed something in my hand And so my ability to, you know, entertain myself or, you know, read a book and have that, um, stamina for reading, which is a whole nother topic, that reading stamina may be different than a more neurotypical person.

00:31:24.509 --> 00:31:37.499
But if I'm working with my family and my family has learned about my styles and my capacity in reading and things like that, they can tailor that to something that is obtainable, and so can classroom teachers and things like that.

00:31:37.729 --> 00:31:38.759
You might need to chunk it.

00:31:38.759 --> 00:31:41.539
You read for 15 minutes, you draw for 15 minutes, you know?

00:31:41.819 --> 00:31:46.719
There's ways to do it so that it's appropriate for the developmental level of the student.

00:31:47.459 --> 00:31:51.379
And then there's audiobooks as well as like a way of, you know, co-reading.

00:31:51.529 --> 00:32:03.009
I would always say put the audiobook on, but also read the words, um, if, if possible, if that's something that you need to like accommodate or to add to the experience if there's like fun voices and things like that.

00:32:03.583 --> 00:32:10.143
Erin Bailey: everything you said resonated so much with me, Jessica, and I love the example of the road trip.

00:32:10.143 --> 00:32:18.933
'Cause when I was probably around the same age as you, I did a road trip with my grandparents from Arizona, where I lived, to North Dakota, where they lived.

00:32:18.933 --> 00:32:20.443
I mean, that's several states,

00:32:20.508 --> 00:32:21.128
Jessica Jones: Yes.

00:32:21.233 --> 00:32:29.667
Erin Bailey: Um, and before we went on the road trip, we went to the library, and back then they had, like, these plastic bags and in the...

00:32:29.727 --> 00:32:34.407
that were hanging on this rack, and in the bag was the book and the cassette tape.

00:32:34.869 --> 00:32:42.569
and my goodness, I read the... listened to The Velveteen Rabbit so many times on that, on that trip.

00:32:42.599 --> 00:32:51.949
But I think what I learned from that trip, and it's something that I used my entire life and I used as a teacher and now as a parent, is what my grandpa called the big P.

00:32:52.412 --> 00:32:54.432
and the big P stood for patience.

00:32:54.692 --> 00:33:07.372
Um, and y- you know, any time I seemed like I was getting a little impatient, he would say, like, "You gotta have the big P." And the joke of my family is at one point I was like, "Grandpa, I'm losing the big P back here." We would say that.

00:33:07.692 --> 00:33:19.722
But I think, like, to your point- It's not just children that need to learn patience, and this might not be very popular, and, and for parents who are listening, take this from a place of love.

00:33:20.062 --> 00:33:30.983
It's parents that need more patience, too, because so many times we put a screen in front of our child because we are losing our patience, and I'm not saying you should never do that.

00:33:30.983 --> 00:33:46.719
But I'm a, a literacy expert, and I see all the time children... parents and children in, shopping carts on, on devices watching videos and walking around the mall pushing their child in a stroller watching videos.

00:33:46.759 --> 00:33:58.169
And there are so many wonderful real-world opportunities to talk to your child to boost their language and their vocabulary development and set them up for success.

00:33:58.519 --> 00:34:03.559
And unfortunately, if you stick a screen in front of your child, you are losing those opportunities.

00:34:04.029 --> 00:34:04.319
Jessica Jones: Yeah.

00:34:04.719 --> 00:34:05.149
Yeah.

00:34:05.199 --> 00:34:11.236
It's, it's being used as a regulation tool when co-regulation can, replace that in some instances.

00:34:11.646 --> 00:34:22.800
Like, especially if you have siblings, like, "You all, you two go play this game," or, you know, "You have this amount of time to do this." it does require some planning at times.

00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:27.900
There are some things you can do, you know, just heat of the moment, but it does require a little bit of planning sometimes.

00:34:28.380 --> 00:34:39.877
I say all that to say, though, and not in a not empathetic way, 'cause No statements can ever be blanket, but th-this happened for parents when there weren't screens.

00:34:39.907 --> 00:34:50.007
Like, when screens weren't a thing, everybody had to figure out a way to create space for regulation, entertainment, et cetera.

00:34:50.667 --> 00:35:05.365
And so in you approaching how you manage your family or how you manage situations, instead of being the default approach, I can manage with the screen, let the default approach be: What would I do if screens didn't exist?

00:35:05.405 --> 00:35:06.895
How would I manage this moment?

00:35:07.335 --> 00:35:12.705
And then use the screen as, like, a secondary tool if that first tool doesn't work.

00:35:12.945 --> 00:35:16.615
If, you know, like, if you have to use it, that's what, you know, I would say.

00:35:16.615 --> 00:35:18.125
Like, my nephew has autism.

00:35:18.425 --> 00:35:23.475
We totally understand that, like, he's able to co-regulate with the iPad very well.

00:35:23.525 --> 00:35:25.195
Like, we know that that's gonna happen.

00:35:25.935 --> 00:35:35.955
But we also know that we don't want that to always be the primary tool, not for him, 'cause we want him to have access to multiple coping strategy skills and tools.

00:35:36.295 --> 00:35:39.375
But also for us, because, one, iPads die.

00:35:39.695 --> 00:35:46.775
Two, you know, they-- he can't be on the iPad all day at school, so we wanna, you know, set them up set, set for success for multiple environments.

00:35:47.105 --> 00:35:53.995
And so, like, our first step is to say, like, "Okay, we're going to this pumpkin patch." The hay is about to be a sensory overload.

00:35:54.035 --> 00:35:55.965
The sound is gonna be a sensory overload.

00:35:56.475 --> 00:35:59.035
We gotta figure out how to approach this pumpkin patch.

00:35:59.155 --> 00:36:00.925
Okay, the pumpkin patch has a playground.

00:36:01.255 --> 00:36:05.715
Okay, so we're gonna do 20 minutes of this, and then we're gonna go to the playground for free time.

00:36:05.745 --> 00:36:15.325
Okay, and then we're gonna, you know, eat at the cafe, but one of the parents are gonna eat in the cafe early so they can take him to the playground so while everybody else is eating he doesn't have to sit at the table.

00:36:15.695 --> 00:36:17.845
There's some hoops you have to jump through sometimes.

00:36:18.185 --> 00:36:26.765
But like there is ... I- if there is a possibility to use some type of, um, other method, then try to employ it as much as you can.

00:36:27.115 --> 00:36:30.325
But in no way are we, you know, judging parents who don't.

00:36:30.355 --> 00:36:37.705
I get that parents have their own sensory capacities and their own capacities for what they can do, especially if they're working at the same time.

00:36:38.215 --> 00:36:44.655
But if your default is screen, try to readjust to my default is the '90s and what would I do then?

00:36:45.005 --> 00:36:46.645
Erin Bailey: What would I do in the '90s?

00:36:47.215 --> 00:36:48.085
I, I love that.

00:36:48.085 --> 00:36:56.015
I will say coloring books, a very underrated, um, tool for calming down and, and just, um, doing something.

00:36:56.015 --> 00:36:58.995
It's good for fine motor skills, um, as well.

00:36:59.605 --> 00:37:03.455
Um, so for educators who are listening, you know, that was families.

00:37:03.455 --> 00:37:14.465
For educators who are listening who might feel overwhelmed, by academic pressures and student mental health needs, what is one simple literacy practice you hope that they take away from, from you today?

00:37:15.435 --> 00:37:19.475
Jessica Jones: one, I, I have such a hard time with picking one, so I'm gonna give two.

00:37:20.575 --> 00:37:29.515
The first, the first literacy practice is a hook or engagement or opener to any lesson can be a literary experience.

00:37:29.717 --> 00:37:40.247
I'm, I would be hard-pressed to find a principal or an instructional coach out there who's like, "No, your hook cannot be reading an excerpt from a story with the kids," or reading a, a book, you know.

00:37:40.287 --> 00:37:50.757
I used to teach math at the middle school level, and we used to read The Miscalculations of... And I can't remember the rest of the title, but it was of, uh, I think it was Lightning Girl.

00:37:50.797 --> 00:37:54.167
Yeah, The Miscalculations of Lightning Girl, and that was our read aloud.

00:37:54.167 --> 00:37:55.617
We opened the class with it.

00:37:55.617 --> 00:38:09.177
The kids were like so into, um, like infinite numbers and pi and, you know, all these different things from the story, and understood that person's struggle with math, but also her acceleration with math.

00:38:09.177 --> 00:38:16.812
And so I say all that to say you can engage, group reading, read alouds, reading excerpts, even if it's a quote.

00:38:17.082 --> 00:38:26.082
Quotes are very powerful literary tools, um, especially 'cause you have to do a lot of, uh, like inferencing and try to figure out what the author meant.

00:38:26.382 --> 00:38:30.322
Even if it's a quote, you can inject it in your, in your day somewhere.

00:38:30.762 --> 00:38:35.422
Having a content-rich environment is gonna ... uh, a context-rich environment is gonna be the next thing.

00:38:35.842 --> 00:38:40.402
Um, your word wall, the f- the anchor charts, the things that you have up around your room.

00:38:40.662 --> 00:38:53.985
Okay, cool, I don't have time for a literary moment in class- My space should be print-rich, and allow kids to visually engage with words, that relates to the content that you're teaching.

00:38:54.285 --> 00:38:55.875
Um, and so those would be the two things.

00:38:55.875 --> 00:38:56.905
Like, there is a way.

00:38:57.345 --> 00:39:06.415
Like, there's always a way if you work with your, you know, instructional coach or your leader and, you know, try to find something that fits your class.

00:39:07.445 --> 00:39:13.991
And then, yeah, you can model joy from reading in those read-alouds and, and those moments where you look at quotes and things like that.

00:39:13.991 --> 00:39:17.591
You're essentially modeling how to engage with reading.

00:39:17.591 --> 00:39:20.031
And just, you know, there's ways to make it entertaining.

00:39:20.031 --> 00:39:20.871
You do a jigsaw.

00:39:20.871 --> 00:39:22.551
You give every group a different quote.

00:39:22.841 --> 00:39:25.871
Or you do a read-aloud and you put on the fun voices.

00:39:26.191 --> 00:39:31.231
You know, there's ways that you can model that reading is entertaining, and then also you can leave with a lesson from it.

00:39:31.641 --> 00:39:33.371
Um, and so those are the things I would say.

00:39:33.401 --> 00:39:36.401
I know that's way more than one, but I don't know how to be a ... Yeah.

00:39:36.826 --> 00:39:53.076
Erin Bailey: I mean, your, your example is perfect because before Jessica was, uh, the assistant principal for the middle school, she was a middle
school math teacher, and here she was still using read-alouds, having anchor charts, having a word wall, integrating social-emotional learning into math.

00:39:53.076 --> 00:39:58.386
Like, that is how you create a literacy-rich experience for students.

00:39:58.386 --> 00:40:00.866
So I think, I think it's perfect.

00:40:00.902 --> 00:40:02.802
so I could talk to you all day.

00:40:03.102 --> 00:40:07.722
Um, but we- I do always end by asking guests what does reading inspire for you?

00:40:08.367 --> 00:40:08.927
Jessica Jones: Yes.

00:40:09.207 --> 00:40:10.977
For me, reading inspires change.

00:40:11.200 --> 00:40:20.550
there's so much power in understanding the reality of others, um, and helping it to make sense with your own personal reality.

00:40:20.852 --> 00:40:30.592
but also there's so much power in understanding that in some ways, you know, stick with me here, realities are in some ways infinite, you know?

00:40:30.592 --> 00:40:32.912
And so there's always a new book.

00:40:32.972 --> 00:40:34.432
There's always a new story.

00:40:34.762 --> 00:40:37.162
Um, there's always a new possibility.

00:40:37.162 --> 00:40:50.412
And when you engage with, you know, observing all of them through reading these stories, you can also expand your own belief and horizons in what imagination and possibility can do for you, and it inspires change.

00:40:50.742 --> 00:41:04.749
And so if anything, I, you know, I really f- Truly believe that narratives help change to happen, um, whether they be fictional or true, and digesting that, is very powerful.

00:41:05.089 --> 00:41:09.939
And the other thing is change in one's knowledge and ability.

00:41:10.239 --> 00:41:21.039
Um, one of my main pillars of my personal education philosophy is if I teach a child to be able to conduct research, I've essentially taught them how to teach themselves.

00:41:21.039 --> 00:41:24.999
So it's like I'm teaching you how to research, and I'm helping you learn how you learn.

00:41:25.429 --> 00:41:39.369
If I can do those two things, I have essentially kind of put myself out of work as a teacher and have empowered them to self, you know, pr- self-educate, and that's something that, you know, that's something you can't destroy ever

00:41:39.499 --> 00:41:42.129
You know, you know how to access this information.

00:41:42.539 --> 00:41:44.239
You know how you learn best.

00:41:45.129 --> 00:41:46.479
Go get whatever you wanna know.

00:41:47.009 --> 00:41:49.349
And so that's what literacy is for me.

00:41:49.763 --> 00:41:51.043
Erin Bailey: I love that, Jessica.

00:41:51.043 --> 00:41:53.783
Reading inspires change and change makers.

00:41:53.783 --> 00:41:55.423
Um, thank you so much, Jessica.

00:41:55.423 --> 00:41:56.923
It was wonderful having you.

00:41:57.779 --> 00:41:58.679
Jessica Jones: Yes, same.

00:41:58.679 --> 00:41:59.319
Likewise.

00:41:59.319 --> 00:42:02.869
I'm so excited to always work with you, and thanks for giving me this opportunity.

00:42:03.313 --> 00:42:03.863
Erin Bailey: course.

00:42:04.582 --> 00:42:08.122
Thank you for listening to Reading Inspires by Reading Is Fundamental.

00:42:08.432 --> 00:42:13.912
I hope today's conversation sparked new ideas, meaningful connections, and a renewed love of reading.

00:42:14.262 --> 00:42:23.462
If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe, share it with a fellow literacy champion, and join us next time as we continue exploring what reading inspires